DPF

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

thanks for that, if I am ordering a temp sensor from eurocare then I may as well change the relay at the same time, which do I need? sorry to be a pain.

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 21573
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2163

Re: DPF

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Your Berlingo doesn't have a separate relay showing on this engine (normally in the Fan Cowling Assembly), which means the function is integrated into the a relay within the Engine Fusebox - and these are generally non-serviceable.

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

these bog standard?

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 21573
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2163

Re: DPF

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Fuse boxes? - No

Engine FuseBox - item (5)
image_2020-10-28_123317.png

Old part: 9807028880
Replacement (Updated) Part: 9807028780

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

thanks Marc, expensive part to change just in case, will try the sensor first.

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

temp sensor arrived and fitted, wait and see now...

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

just drove 3 miles home and fans running again....

411514
Donor 2017
Posts: 418
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:26
x 38

Re: DPF

Post by 411514 »

wayne10 wrote:
02 Nov 2020, 15:03
just drove 3 miles home and fans running again....
When are the fans running? Whilst driving, or when you stop? If when you've stopped, for how long after? To flatten a healthy battery the fan would probably need to run for best part of an hour.

Are you using the air con?

How hot is the cabin blower on highest heat?

Have you checked the coolant level?

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

411514 wrote:
02 Nov 2020, 17:13
wayne10 wrote:
02 Nov 2020, 15:03
just drove 3 miles home and fans running again....
When are the fans running? Whilst driving, or when you stop? If when you've stopped, for how long after? To flatten a healthy battery the fan would probably need to run for best part of an hour.

Are you using the air con?

How hot is the cabin blower on highest heat?

Have you checked the coolant level?
coolant is fine, not using air con, never checked how hot cabin fan are but it does get warm, fans are probably on when driving but stay on after switching off, they can run for 6/7 mins but do run very regular, whatever the fault is, could it trigger the fans to run at any time- middle of the night for example. didnt use the van for 2 or 3 days last week (lockdown) and battery was too flat to turn it over. i do get an occasional error code p2562 (i think).

411514
Donor 2017
Posts: 418
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:26
x 38

Re: DPF

Post by 411514 »

Check how hot the blower is on full heat. If excessively hot, that might indicate a genuine overheating issue, e.g. dodgy thermostat. If cool, may indicate airlock in coolant, which may interfere with temp sensor, although this seems unlikely.

I'd be very surprised if fan is turning on overnight.

Sounds like you may have another issue re flattening battery. Did the first occurrence of fan running and battery flattening coincide? They don't sound related to me. If battery is OK, I'd suspect some consumer is staying on overnight - that's quite a high drain, perhaps dodgy alternator rectifier.

Ideally you'd hook it up to a Lexia, which will presumably be able to tell you the temperature reading.

Does your car have a temperature gauge on dash? If that isn't dropping when the fans are on, something sounds genuinely wrong with cooling, and my guess in that case would be thermostat.

I'd probably replace thermostat next - that'l give you chance to bleed coolant as well. Thermostat and coolant probably won't cost much more than £30 together, and coolant is good maintenance anyway.

Edit: and another thought, if you do suspect actual overheating, have a think about the coolant pump - can you see any leakage? When is timing belt/pump next due a change - if it's soon bring it forward to rule it out now, if not soon don't bother, because too much hassle for unlikely suspect.

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

will check the blower temp tomorrow, there is a temp gauge which dont show a high reading when the fans run, fans have been running for a while before the battery went flat (less than a year old) 14.2v at the battery when idling, anyone in swansea area with a lexia?will look into a thermostat next.

411514
Donor 2017
Posts: 418
Joined: 14 Dec 2010, 16:26
x 38

Re: DPF

Post by 411514 »

From what you say, battery flattening and fans running seem unconnected, so plan on tackling them separately.

On the battery flattening point, to test whether it is duff battery or a consumer staying on, disconnect battery next time you are parked up for same amount of time as previously (did you say 2/3 days). If engine doesn't then start when reconnected, then battery is duff. Easy fix by replacing battery, but be mindful that there may be a reason why battery duff, e.g. discharged repeatedly by consumer.

If engine does start, then there is a consumer somewhere. Aftermarket headunit and alternator will be main suspects.

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
28 Oct 2020, 12:37
wayne10 wrote:
28 Oct 2020, 12:24
last time the fans ran when the engine was off I checked the temperature gauge and was midway, wouldn't that have been higher to switch the fan on?
These are the fan speed triggering temperatures for your vehicle. Bear in mind if your Air Conditioning is switched on, the low speed fan will kick in regardless - so switch the A/C off before testing. Taking that into mind, if the fan is coming on (without air conditioning active) earlier than these temperatures below then something is triggering it and it could be the temperature sensor / relay / short etc.
Descriptionmanual gearbox
Temperature threshold (For illumination of the "STOP" warning light on the instrument panel)118 °C
Temperature threshold (For extinguishing the "STOP" warning light on the instrument panel)115 °C
Triggering threshold (Fan unit at slow speed)96 °C
Triggering threshold (Fan unit at high speed)105 °C
Temperature (Air conditioning cut-off)Negative external temperatures
Temp sensor changed but still fans are running, is there a way of testing the relay even though it's built in?

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 21573
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2163

Re: DPF

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No, not with the ones incorporated into the engine ECU AFAIK.

Fault P2562 relates to Turbo Charger Position out of reference values yy 20% or more, causing a lack of power.

Back to the cooling issue - if the coolant housing sensor is shot - it will provide the wrong info and the engine ECU will keep operating the fan as it thinks the engine is too hot (including after you switch off the ignition). Here's an explanation:

Cooling Fan Regulation Relevant to Engine Temperature
  • Two temperature intervals allow the cooling fan to operate either at slow or at fast speed (Control in relation to the engine coolant temperature). See my last diagram showing triggering temperatures.
  • The engine coolant temperature sensor, installed on the coolant outlet housing, informs the engine ECU of the temperature of the engine coolant.
Fan Speeds in Relation to A/C Operation

For cooling of the condenser, the B.R.A.C. function (Air Conditioning Need For Cooling) supplies the F.R.I.C. function (Cooling Function Integrated into the Engine ECU) with a reference speed in accordance with the pressure of the air conditioning circuit.

The linear pressure sensor of the refrigerant fluid fitted on the condenser supplies a voltage proportional to the pressure in the air conditioning circuit and transmit this information to the built-in Systems Interface on the CAN IS network.

The engine fuse box sends a speed reference value to the engine management ECU making it possible to control the slow speed or fast speed of the cooling fan unit.
image_2020-11-03_112759.png
Key
"a" Cooling fan unit speeds triggering thresholds.
"b" Fan unit speeds untriggering limits.
"A" Fan assembly low speed.
"B" Cooling fan unit fast speed.
"P" Pressure (in bars).
Post Ventilation

When the engine stops, the engine ECU orders post-cooling, if the measured water temperature exceeds a programmed threshold.

The fan unit cannot be started in the following cases:
  • Operation in power latch (*)
  • Switching off of the engine ECU electronics
  • Engine starting phase
(*) In power latch operating mode, the fan unit remains powered for about 30 seconds after the ignition has been turned off.

The duration of the post-cooling is 6 minutes.

Observations
So if your post cooling operation is longer than 6 minutes you have a problem - and this may be why your battery is flattening.
If your Coolant Temperature Sensor in the outlet tank is shot, then as said it will provide incorrect temperature readings resulting in the fan engaging in post-cooling operation more frequently - again draining your battery.

So I would consider the outlet tank / sensor first.

wayne10
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Aug 2019, 09:05

Re: DPF

Post by wayne10 »

Outlet tank? Assume that's the expansion tank?