Stalling C4 1.6hdi

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Doo
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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Doo »

Am working on the car just now and about to change the oil.

I noticed (why I didn't spot it before I don't know :roll: ) there is an accumulater sphere on the front of the gearbox. Part of me is convinced that this is worn and cthat's why she's jumping into gear and crashing gears now and again. Only 1st and reverse though. Not all the time and there's no codes present.

Who's with me that at 13yrs old it needs changed 8-)

There really isn't any other issues with the car.... =P~

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Doo
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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Doo »

Well, I had a good look under the car as I did the oil & filter, CV boot, track rod end and new front discs & pads.

I saw a pipe going from the housing the sphere is mounted on, into the box so I can only imagine that the sphere is the "push" for the clutch as a replacement for a pedal.

I think I'm on to something. It would be nice to know if the sphere is dead, but judging by the way the car is crunching into gear (1st & reverse, although not always...) I am 99.9% certain that is what is causing the issue 8-[

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Doo
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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Doo »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
13 Sep 2020, 20:22
Ok, so here are the parts for the clutch system on this piloted C4: It's a 6-Speed Piloted Gearbox.
A) Clutch Control Master CylinderB) Clutch Parts
ImageImage
Just let me know the item number(s) from Table A or B if you need any part numbers.

As for the jumping on startup - obviously that is dangerous and needs sorting sooner rather than later. I don't have a solution as personally, I walk run in the other direction when I see one of these systems :shock:

I won't even start to advise what could be wrong as it is likely to be expensive whatever it is withe these as the labour is over 2.5 hours just to replace the actuator. But I would suggest you ring the guys at Euro Car Care (not to be confused with Euro Car Parts!). I know they have worked on these systems when they fiorst came out on the earlier C series models, so it may be worth having a chat and explaining the lunging issue on engine start.

But in the meantime, I strongly suggest you advise Mrs Doo to park on a runway for now just in case :-D
Hi there, I bought oil for the box and intend on doing it...sooon :oops:

However, I am unsure of draining the oil & refilling. I haven't been under it for a bit, is there drain a plug & fill plug?

Also, does draining & filling require any input from the Lexia/Diagbox? I plan to give it a 15 mile round trip to warm the oil for ease of draining and the new oil will be warmed before filling. That's the easy part.

I also think the sphere on the gearbox should be replaced. Again, will swapping that out require any input from the computer to reset anything?

I have searched high and low, but can find NOTHING pertaining to our car & it's symptoms which are still trying to leap forward while being started or jumping into gear for no reason.

Is it possible the clutch is worn? It doesn't seem to act like it as it pulls very strong in all gears, even towing the caravan and 4 passengers. No slippage to report and we didn't hang around. There's 90k on the clock.

Could it be the clutch actuator is jamming? I really can't believe that....

I am certain it is an electrical issue because these boxes won't go into gear unless the stick is moved from Neutral and they shouldn't be in gear while being started, let alone jump forward. Also, to remind anyone interested, the car has twice been idling in neutral when it suddenly jumped into gear and stalled. Both times it was after towing the caravan over 15 miles. That leads me back to oil... Is there some electro valves that might be an issue?

Where will I get a sphere for the gearbox as I can't find one :?

Thanks all.

Edit, I meant to add a new twist to the tale. A couple of times now, while starting the engine it appears to be in gear and trying to start but stalling (wife's description) and then the dash goes to factory setting! So I have to go put it back to MPH and so on. My wife is European so is able to convert KPH to MPH so she can get to work safe =D> But still.... So that would also point to an electrical issue, but the battery seems to be producing enough volts and amps, although I haven't yet tested it while cranking. Another pancake on the pile :roll:

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I’ll try and get a fuller answer later as I’m not on my rig at present, but regarding the oil, you can’t just top it up. The hydraulic system needs to be depressurised before topping it up and checking the level.

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Doo »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 23:09
I’ll try and get a fuller answer later as I’m not on my rig at present, but regarding the oil, you can’t just top it up. The hydraulic system needs to be depressurised before topping it up and checking the level.
Just to be clear, I want to drain & replace as opposed to top up. Thanks :wink:

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes. Same thing, the system must be depressurised before you do any work including draining and refilling.

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by xantia_v6 »

It's not clear whether we are all discussing changing the gearbox lubricant or the hydraulic control fluid.

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Doo »

xantia_v6 wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 07:33
It's not clear whether we are all discussing changing the gearbox lubricant or the hydraulic control fluid.
Well, gearbox oil to me is the oil that lubricates the gears in the box.

Hydraulic control fluid sounds to me like it would have something to do with the clutch operation (is it actual hydraulic oil or brake fluid?)

I thought I was being clear. Apologies if I wasn't :oops:

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Ceenine »

A fascinating and frustrating problem.

When I top up the hydraulic fluid I don’t bother depressurising this system. I believe you would need to do that only when you are completely replacing the fluid. Car is still working fine after 14,000 km.

I will be following this topic with great interest. I am intrigued by your towing a caravan. What is its mass?
Don

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by Doo »

Ceenine wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 12:50
A fascinating and frustrating problem.

When I top up the hydraulic fluid I don’t bother depressurising this system. I believe you would need to do that only when you are completely replacing the fluid. Car is still working fine after 14,000 km.

I will be following this topic with great interest. I am intrigued by your towing a caravan. What is its mass?
Don
It started life at 1100kg, but I rather think, like me, it's put on weight :-D I imagine it's closer to 1200kg or so. Our car is rated for aprox 1560kg or thereabout.

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Re: Stalling C4 1.6hdi

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ceenine wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 12:50
A fascinating and frustrating problem.

When I top up the hydraulic fluid I don’t bother depressurising this system. I believe you would need to do that only when you are completely replacing the fluid.
I'm only concerned with providing the correct guidance where it is known Don - and in the case of properly checking the oil and topping it up, the system needs to be depressurised - otherwise it is impossible to correctly gauge how much oil is in the system and this can lead to over-pressurisation when the system is finally pressurised. The operating pressure of the actuator is 37 BAR / 537 PSI.

As Doo is talking about removing the Accumulator Sphere on the Gearbox Actuator, it is the hydraulic actuator I am referring to regarding the checking and topping up of the oil.

Hydraulics Reservoir
Operations to be performedRemoving - RefittingReplacementCheck the oil level - Topping up the oil levelChanging the oil
Reading of the countersNo OKNo OKNo OKNo OK
Writing of the countersNo OKNo OKNo OKNo OK
Depressurisation of the piloting actuator1 (Before removal)1 (Before replacement)1 (Before check)1 (Before fluid change)
Pressurisation of the piloting actuator2 (After refitting)2 (After replacement)2 (After check)2 (After fluid change)
Bleeding of the air in the hydraulic circuit3 (After refitting)3 (After replacement)No OK3 (After fluid change)
Initialisation of the bite pointNo OKNo OKNo OKNo OK
Programming of the piloted manual gearbox grilleNo OKNo OKNo OKNo OK
Note: The numbers 1, 2 & 3 refer to the order the operations are done