C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

This unit is the RT4 and RT5 system and is made by Magneti Marelli
Main differences between RT4 & RT5 - RT5 has Bluetooth Hands Free, faster Navigation calculation and on C4 & C4 Picasso only, USB ports and a High-Res screen.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Unlikely - most of us have enough problems keeping a working car on the road, without creating more issues :rofl2:
Fortius
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

BTW, is there any chance to compare the VIN no. from the donor car to my VIN no., so we can see the differences? Is that a viable option?
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It wouldn't tell you anything - the wiring diagrams are similar - with or without equaliser AMP for a Tourer.

I can, if you want, tell you what harness part number you have fitted - and if you have the donor VIN from the AMP, pop that up and I can tell you the harness part number for that.

The reason there are so many variants are for Left or right hand drive, trim level - so motorised tailgate or not, rear airbags on the rear seats or not, type of locking, type of head unit, telematics or not, etc. etc. and the different build dates of course.
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EDC5
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by EDC5 »

Fortius wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 16:58
I will tear up the car and put it back together, as long as i find what goes where! :))
So far I understand that it's very hard to do this retro fit, but not impossible... I still have some questions... don't know if I'll find the answers.

Anyway, no one has done this until now? No other crazy person like me?
If you look at my thread here it charts my journey of audio upgrade in the X7:

viewtopic.php?p=540330#p540330

I started out wanting to fit the factory fit amp but I didn't want to mess with any CAN wiring so i decided to complement the original system with a powerful amplifier that sits in between the RT4 and original car wiring loom. I also upgraded the speakers to some very hefty aftermarket Focal units.
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

EDC5 wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 20:28
Fortius wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 16:58
I will tear up the car and put it back together, as long as i find what goes where! :))
So far I understand that it's very hard to do this retro fit, but not impossible... I still have some questions... don't know if I'll find the answers.

Anyway, no one has done this until now? No other crazy person like me?
If you look at my thread here it charts my journey of audio upgrade in the X7:

viewtopic.php?p=540330#p540330

I started out wanting to fit the factory fit amp but I didn't want to mess with any CAN wiring so i decided to complement the original system with a powerful amplifier that sits in between the RT4 and original car wiring loom. I also upgraded the speakers to some very hefty aftermarket Focal units.
I've read your thread. I have an Hertz H.640 amplifier and 2 sets of Hertz Cento Pro CPK 165, along with an 1000W subwoofer (that is currently installed in my car). The main idea was to install the OEM HIFI sound system. Is more a guilty pleasure than something else...
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 18:34
It wouldn't tell you anything - the wiring diagrams are similar - with or without equaliser AMP for a Tourer.

I can, if you want, tell you what harness part number you have fitted - and if you have the donor VIN from the AMP, pop that up and I can tell you the harness part number for that.

The reason there are so many variants are for Left or right hand drive, trim level - so motorised tailgate or not, rear airbags on the rear seats or not, type of locking, type of head unit, telematics or not, etc. etc. and the different build dates of course.
The VIN no. from the donor car is: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]. I think you have my VIN no. Thank you!
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so the donor was a Saloon with RT4 and Equaliser Amp and that intermediate harness was part 6578W4 for Saloons built up to 1st March 2009.

The Tourer version of the intermediate harness was part: 6583QQ for up to the same build date with the same RT4 and Equaliser Amp.
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

Hi again!

From a previous diagram of the amplifier connectors, for "connector A" there are 3 cables for the CAN comm as follows:
- Pin 2 - CAN+ (in my case, single red cable)
- Pin 7 - Comfort Can High (braided with the cable from pin 14, purple cable)
- Pin 14 - Comfort Can Low. (braided with the cable from pin 7, green cable)

As far as I know, CAN High is the same thing as CAN+, and basic CAN networking is CAN H and CAN L. Sometimes there is an optional CAN Ground.
Is there a possibility that "Pin 2 - CAN+", is not correct (on the diagram) and it is actually that optional CAN ground? It would be weird, as the color is red...

The RT 4 Fakra connector has 2 CAN cables, CAN H and CAN L, no CAN ground, or CAN+.

Thank you!
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

OK, so I documented more and CAN+ is a new protocol. The audio signal is transmitted through this cable? Any idea where can I find a CAN+ cable on my harness?
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by GiveMeABreak »

CAN + isn't a 'new' protocol, it's been around for years. :wink:

CAN + is just another name for CAN HIGH and CAN - is another name for CAN LOW.
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

OK, in that case, I have 3 CAN Cables on connector A... CAN H, CAN L and CAN+. CAN H is the same thing as CAN+?
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Don't forget there is the CAN Comfort Network (High and Low) and then CAN CAR network and the CAN IS network coming into play. So Pin 2 (CAN High) & pin 14 (CAN LOW) are on connector A of the Amp, and on Pin 2 (wire Z91D) which the description is missing from my technical notes, but goes to the BSI and is probably a power / control wire for the amp.
Fortius
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

Ok. I've connected CAN H and CAN L to the same wires at my RT4. I've used the Z91D wire for +12V and when I connect this cable i can hear a relay sound inside the amplifier (so this wire is the remote wire). I've used Diagbox and hifi amplifier was changed to present.
Still, no sound. I've used front left and right RT4 speaker outputs as front and left amplifier inputs and ...no sound. What next? Any ideas?
Fortius
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by Fortius »

Hi!

I came back with details about the upgrade...
I've connected the CAN wires from the amplifier to the CAN wires from the RT4, the speaker output from the RT4 to the inputs of the amplifier, the amplifier speaker outputs to some speakers, I've modified the status of the amplifier to present using Diagbox but..no sound.
I have communication error between the BSI and the amp.
Tomorrow I will go to a local Citroen dealer to see if they can help me.

Will post an update and/or solution (if there is one) once I finish this project, one way or another...
20200304_172809.jpg
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Re: C5 X7 RT4 - Fitting Factory Amplifier

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I think I know what the answer will be, but good luck!