Timing belt replacement, need help

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doctle
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by doctle »

I would go with fitting the new pump if the bearing is grumbling it will have to be done very soon anyway. What manual do you have? You seem to have access to engineering tools and machines if it were me I would ignore the manual and take everything off. Is the shield some kind of a blanking plate or protective cover?

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myglaren
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by myglaren »

Someone who really knows will advise soon but from older posts I believe that it is necessary to cut away part of the shield.
I wouldn't be tempted to risk the original pump.

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

doctle wrote:
16 Feb 2020, 12:52
I would go with fitting the new pump if the bearing is grumbling it will have to be done very soon anyway. What manual do you have? You seem to have access to engineering tools and machines if it were me I would ignore the manual and take everything off. Is the shield some kind of a blanking plate or protective cover?
It looks like a "heat shield cover".
I have the Service Box...ehmm...cough...original...cough... but it doesn't show the shield on the drawings.
Anyway.. what i guess and hope, is that it is held by the same screws that hold the pump body, so now i'll go back into the garage and try to reach those screws... if only my hand could be smaller !!

doctle
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by doctle »

I have a midget on staff for the harder to reach places, she doesn't do much except make tea and iron shirts

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

I was able to remove only 2 out of 3 screws that keep this metal shield in place.

The last one is the one in the picture (i was able to insert my phone here and take the picture), and the harder to reach. I have tried with differenty type of keys, i have also lost 2 keys somewhere into the engine...

I admit i start to be discouraged by now... i regret having choosed to change the water pump...

I hope that Givemeabreak can join this thread and give some hints


EDIT : This one is the screw that hold the exhaust pipes... i don't have to remove it.
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screw.jpg
Last edited by David_CH on 16 Feb 2020, 17:20, edited 1 time in total.

doctle
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by doctle »

What heads are on the screws?

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

doctle wrote:
16 Feb 2020, 14:49
What heads are on the screws?
10mm Hex

doctle
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by doctle »

A hex key isnt ideal I prefer something like this
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5682.jpg

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

I have found a full picture of the engine on google, with the damn metal shield position.


Looks like there is one more screw to remove
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engine.jpeg

RichardW
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by RichardW »

PSA only supply the pump as a complete unit, so it does look like taking the whole thing off is the intended replacement method:
waterpump.JPG
The heatshield 'just' appears to be held on by 3 nuts on the WP bolts - which will then need to be removed to get the pump out. The top stud looks like it will also need to come out, appears to have an E spline fitting on the end to allow this
heatshield.JPG
heatshield.JPG (11.34 KiB) Viewed 75 times
Edit: Can you access from underneath? Maybe it is one of those things where you need to pull the drive shaft....it may appear drastic, but in fact the time taken will be saved several times over in fighting to get access....

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

RichardW wrote:
16 Feb 2020, 16:46
Edit: Can you access from underneath? Maybe it is one of those things where you need to pull the drive shaft....it may appear drastic, but in fact the time taken will be saved several times over in fighting to get access....
Thanks Richard ! By looking at it again, i thought the same thing. The drive shaft block the way, without it , it should be easy to reach all the screws from the underneath.

But... i'm too much scared about removing that, and i think it's out of my capabilities :-(

doctle
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by doctle »

Driveshaft isn't too hard to remove, I think you should be able to remove the hub from the wishbone and simply pull the shaft out still attached to the strut. Might need to replace the oil seal and the oil will have top be drained

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

so... for today i'm tired enough, i'll continue in the next days.

Fortunately i have a motorbike and i didn't owned a car for 2 years, so it's not a big problem waiting another week to finish the job, but i want to do it right !

After looking again at the pictures i have took, and the reference images found on youtube and google, i'm 90% that i was able to remove the 3 nuts circled on the image. The one lower left i removed the nut from the engine side.
So i still only need to find the last one and this pump should go away. I'll try again with some contortionism to reach it, without touching the driveshaft.

After 2 days under the car i'm very tired, but considering that it's the first time i do a job like that, i'm pretty satisfied. The important part is that everything is marked and locked. I have the pins on the right place and i've marked with white paint all the positions of the crankshaft, camshaft, and belt tooths. I also have counted the number of tooths between the two camshaft pulleys and the cranckshaft pulleys, and reported this to the new belt so i just have to follow the white dots.
i can't absolutely going wrong with the sync. (crossing fingers)

But first : change this damn water pump David !!! you can't stop here just for a stupid pump ! (self coaching)
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Schermata 2020-02-16 alle 18.35.48.png
waterpump.JPG

David_CH
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by David_CH »

Btw... when the manual talk about the "Exhaust camshaft pulley" and "Inlet camshaft pulley" , they mean the pulley near the exhaust or near the air inlet... right ?? Asking just to be sure to not confuse the two.. :)

RichardW
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Re: Timing belt replacement, need help

Post by RichardW »

This refers to which set of valves the cam is driving, but, yes, they are on the sides of the manifolds, this being a cross flow engine. The inlet cam is the one with the adjustable cam sprocket on it.