1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

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tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Richard,

Thank you for your reply. Your explanation makes perfect sense. And Diagbox synchronization trace shows just "yes" or "no" and it is "no" all the time.

I have checked the sensors, camshaft and crankshaft, and both of them are not loose. So it likely that the problem is with the timing belt jumping teeth.

In fact, I had slipped teeth problem with this car before, about 3 months ago. It tore off 8 or so teeth and ended up in bent valves and slipped crankshaft. I just hope I do not have to repeat the same repair process again.

One thing I would like to make sure that works before I go further, is the fuel pressure control valve. When doing actuator test I expect it to "vibrate" for a short period, stop, and "vibrate" again rather than produce clicks every second or so which is what it is doing now. Can someone say how the test should "sound"?

The reason I am concerned with the fuel pressure valve is that I had experience with changing cam and crankshaft position sensors and sensor rings just to learn that synchronization error can be produced if the rail pressure "pulsing" is not right. And if the fuel pressure control valve is not working correctly it possible that it could create the symptoms I have with my car.

By the way, it is 8V 1.6hdi engine
RichardW
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by RichardW »

Don't know about that.... but I had another thought, if the crank sensor had gone kaput, then it would stop (and not start). In live data when you crank it does it show the engine turning over? If not that would also give no synch on cam/crank...
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

The engine is not turning over in live data when cranking (Diagbox shows 0 rpm when cranking).

I have replaced:
  • camshaft sensor
  • crankshaft sensor
  • pressure regulator solenoid valve (on the pump)
  • checked cambelt - it is intact and sound
Despite all the changes the problem persists: engine cuts off after a couple of seconds of cranking, fuel rail pressure goes up to 600 the first 2 times when cranking, during subsequent crankings the pressure goes only up to 60 before the cranking cuts off, the pattern repeats after ignition is turned off completely.

Can anyone suggest what could cause the fault?
Hell Razor5543
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I would now check the wiring to the camshaft/crankshaft sensors for any open circuits. The fact that DiagBox does not 'see' the engine turning over is somewhat telling. I feel certain Marc will be able to provide the relevant wiring diagrams to help.
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

I would expect to find a fault code if a sensor wiring has an open circuit, but I will check the wiring and I would appreciate if Marc could provide relevant wiring diagrams.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Injection System for your C3 Picasso: HDi 92 DV6DTED

As usual, most codes are on our Wiki:

https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/wiki/Elect ... ring_Codes

1313: Engine Speed Sensor


Image
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Thanks for the schematic diagram Mark.

Today I checked the crankshaft sensor (engine speed sensor) wiring, and it was ok. I tried to check the sensor's signal using an old oscilloscope, but could not adjust it well enough as to see the signal properly, however, it seemed that it produced some sort of pulses. As there was not much I could test I decided to put old crankshaft sensor on (the one that was on the car when it stopped working) just to see if I get a different result on the oscilloscope. As soon as I turned the key the car started.

I was pleasantly surprised, but unfortunately, I don't know what had caused the car to stop in the first place. I was wrong thinking that the fault was caused either crankshaft, camshaft sensors or pressure regulator. Changes did not solve the problem, but when I swapped the new crankshaft sensor with the old one the car started. I believe that the cause of the problem lies with the crankshaft sensor or its wiring connector.

I would like to thank everyone who sent me valuable suggestions, guidance and ideas. It was a great help and support. THANK YOU.
admiral51
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by admiral51 »

Congrats on getting it running, a good result :)
However ..............
Just read the whole thread and a couple of things seem do not tie up.
Richard posted the numbers for 16v and 8v sensors as they are different as he had issues with the Vin.
Marc has posted saying it is a 16v yet OP states later that it is a 8v .
If the old one works what happens if you put the replacement back ?
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Admiral51,
The car VIN number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
it is Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6Hdi 2011, it is definitely 8 valve engine.
In short what happened:
The car engine stopped working. I changed the crankshaft sensor to a new one. Nothing changed, I changed it back to the first one and the car started.
I did a number of other changes that I mentioned in my posts but I don't think it did anything, it was just my misdiagnosis of possible faults.
I did not try to swap the sensors again, maybe later I will, but I believe that the new sensor will work too. As I did nothing to fix the car, just disconnected and connected a bunch of leads and parts, I think the problem was to do with wiring. I still not sure where though.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by GiveMeABreak »

admiral51 wrote:
13 Mar 2020, 21:01
Congrats on getting it running, a good result :)
However ..............
Just read the whole thread and a couple of things seem do not tie up.
Richard posted the numbers for 16v and 8v sensors as they are different as he had issues with the Vin.
Marc has posted saying it is a 16v yet OP states later that it is a 8v .
If the old one works what happens if you put the replacement back ?
My apologies Colin - I've corrected one of my earlier posts and deleted the last one as I realised I was working on another vehicle at the time and the DB hadn't updated properly it seems.

They downgraded some of these DV6 engines from a 16V DOHC to an 8V SOHC:

DV6 TED4 110 PS (81 kW, 108 hp), Turbo-Diesel 16-valve
DV6 D 92 PS (68 kW, 91 hp), Turbo-Diesel 8-valve

So the OP does indeed have an 8 Valve version, sorry for the confusion. :wink:
admiral51
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by admiral51 »

No worries Marc :)