Relay 2.2HDI 120

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

onetruecharlatan
Posts: 14
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:03

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by onetruecharlatan »

The only vacuum system that Citroen Service lists against my VIN # is for the brakes, nothing related to the turbo is listed.

There are turbo actuators listed for sale on eBay, and those, (as depicted in the previous link), have a short black hose, which I understood to be vacuum hose. In your opinion, would that be classed as a vacuum system?

Citroen Service also have a diagnosis procedure, (only visible to subscribers, of which I am not one), but it lists 3 error codes that are connected to Engine light on, no smoke, low power, (these being P0100, P0101 & P0103). If the code reader comes back with one of these tomorrow, then at least I can find out from Citroen what work is entailed and the likely cost of the work, if I can't access it myself of course.

I'll keep you posted and thanks for the advice, Steve.
User avatar
EDC5
Donor 2020
Posts: 1216
Joined: 01 Jul 2017, 21:48
x 104

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by EDC5 »

Unfortunately, I'm not that close to the midlands otherwise I would I would have a go reading the codes.

I do think it would be worth taking it somewhere and having them read though. You can then have them cleared and see which ones come back.
onetruecharlatan
Posts: 14
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:03

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by onetruecharlatan »

Code reader arrived this morning. I installed Torque Pro and gave it a whirl. It has thrown the following faults:

P0090 - fuel pressure regulator circuit
P0101 - Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit Range/Performance
P0200 - Fuel Injector Circuit Malfunction
P0235 - Turbocharger Boost Sensor A Circuit Malfunction
P0603 - (KAM) Error

Pending Faults
P0069 - Manifold Absolute Pressure - Barometric Pressure Correlation

The story so far (TL;DR) :-

Engine flooded (1 cylinder hydro locked)
Injectors removed - water ejected
Intercooler removed - dried out
MIL on dashboard, low power, very sooty, idle OK at first, got lumpy after a longer run under load.

Remedial actions taken:
New EGR valve fitted
New MAP sensor fitted
New air filter fitted
New fuel filter fitted
Intake manifold removed - washed out with brake cleaner to remove very heavy carbon build up. Refitted in as clean a possible state.
MAP housing removed and cleaned as above.
Tick over is perfect, doesn't miss a beat. No smoke on start up or idle.
If MAP sensor is plugged in, very heavy smoke. If unplugged, zero smoke. Either of these scenarios - zero turbo boost, won't rev past 3k, MIL light illuminated.


Before the engine was flooded, the engine was a pearler, absolutely fantastic. What the bloody hell has happened because I haven't got a chuffing clue?

As far as I have seen, there are no splits in the air intake piping from the air filter housing to the intake manifold. If there WAS a split in any of these, would it cause ANY of the above codes?

I haven't been able to check the vacuum pipe, (from the actuator to the turbo cold side???), yet. If this small hose IS split, would it be related to code P0235 and/or any of the others shown above as well?

There are no visible signs of fuel leaking, (from the top of the injectors at least). Could I have fudged something up internally in refitting them and I wouldn't know without removal again?

Does anyone know of a Citroen independant in the Birmingham area that's honest and reliable? If inspection of the pipes proves fruitless, I need someone who knows their arse from their elbow and won't take the p**s, but like I said before, I've never had to have anyone look at her previously as she's been absolutely solid until this happened.

With a very heavy heart, Steve.
Sharkie
Posts: 29
Joined: 26 Jan 2020, 21:59
x 1

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by Sharkie »

Usually when engines hydrolock when running they bend a rod and crack rings as well as valve damage/rockerarm damage sometimes.
Check first there is no water in your fuel and drain water from your fuel filter.
Replace oil+filter as there is most likely water in it.
It may also change position of flywheel or associated gear that is positioned on crank/camshafts due to the force of stopping.

If you cleaned map/maf with brake or carb cleaner, you destroyed it.
Borrow/buy yourself a new one. May also be a fault in wiring or connector.
What the bloody hell has happened because I haven't got a chuffing clue?
air pump became water pump. Not a good thing
As far as I have seen, there are no splits in the air intake piping from the air filter housing to the intake manifold. If there WAS a split in any of these, would it cause ANY of the above codes?
Before maf, no.
Check also the ecu socket and plug and wires for corrosion.
I haven't been able to check the vacuum pipe, (from the actuator to the turbo cold side???), yet. If this small hose IS split, would it be related to code P0235 and/or any of the others shown above as well?
Probably no, esp. under idle.
There are no visible signs of fuel leaking, (from the top of the injectors at least). Could I have fudged something up internally in refitting them and I wouldn't know without removal again?
Did you put in new copper washers?

How high was the water? If it was anything more than the top of the tires for any moment of time I would suggest to start looking for a new car as this one has water and grime everywhere and wheel bearings will start to go soon.
Below the bottom of car or hub caps, it should be fine.

There are a lot of faults, either this will cost you money, or time. Probably both.

Your actuation valves, for vacuum etc. are also busted. They have a small air filter on the end, and that got clogged with water, which means as soon as it opens, it applies full vacuum. Keep in mind
Sharkie
Posts: 29
Joined: 26 Jan 2020, 21:59
x 1

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by Sharkie »

I have heard the turbo whistle whilst driving it today, although not as loud as you would expect. The exhaust note has changed, sounds "muffled" for want of a better description.
You probably have a lot of water in your exhaust still
onetruecharlatan
Posts: 14
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:03

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by onetruecharlatan »

Thanks for replies both. I'll try and keep this short.

What I need to stress is the engine was in perfect operating order before the water ingress. See below for details of flood. It never eached any electronics. The engine has never sounded "rough" either before the water damage or after. Idle is as expected. There were never any of the codes listed previously before, (the MIL light came on occasionally but that was because I put verly little miles on it and drove very short distances, went away with a prolonged journey when the engine got properly warmed at motorway speeds).

The engine as of now runs great on idle, it's just got this limp mode issue that I believe is a single issue that I have no knowledge of, (not being a qualified diesel mechanic), and is causing all of the rest of the codes.



Water only covered the intercooler, (which sits low on this unit, approx 12" of water depth), and when the recovery guy came, he pulled the intake pipe off the left side and let the water drain out, of which he said was a "fair bit".

The only filter I haven't changed is the oil filter, which I'll attend to later this week.

I didn't clean the MAF or MAP sensors. I replaced the MAP with a brand new item and whilst the small black housing it connects to was off the van, I cleaned it, (the housing), before refitting both it and the new MAP sensor.
In order to check the MAP & MAF connectors are good, what voltages should I expect to see on a multi meter? Should the engine be running or just with ignition on when testing?

I will be checking the turbo tomorrow for signs of splits in the vacuum pipe, I'll also thoroughly check the intake piping for leaks/cracks. Whilst I'm there, I'll make sure the ECU wiring is good and seated as it should be, just to rule it out.

I replaced a washer/seal of one kind or another when refitting the injectors, but it was over 2 months ago now and I can't for the life of me remember which.


"Your actuation valves, for vacuum etc. are also busted." - Where do I find this on this engine? Citroen Service has no listings for actuator/actuation valves. Is it something to do with the fuel pump, (only thing that comes back when I Google it)?


"You probably have a lot of water in your exhaust still" - Having let the engine idle for 40+ mins and driven it for approx 15 miles at normal temps, wouldn't any water in the exhaust have evaporated as steam by now?
ekjdm14
Donor 2020
Posts: 1820
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
x 205

Re: Relay 2.2HDI 120

Post by ekjdm14 »

I'm not 100% sure of much of the above but one thing that springs to mind with mention of the exhaust sounding muffled. Could the thermal shock of the water have caused either cat or DPF to internally break up and partially block the exhaust?

I know on petrol engines, thermal shock of driving through a flood can cause this and with the exhaust note sounding muffled it's something worth checking. If you can disconnect the exhaust before the cat/at the downpipe and go for a run (maybe with earplugs!) it may show that up.

If you're around Congleton any time (assuming you'd trust the van that far), you're welcome to plug it into my Diagbox and see what that has to say. It might show up issues a generic scanner won't & with access to live data it might be easier to pinpoint the issue (diff. pressure sensor readings, MAF/MAP airflow values etc). Have you cleared the faults and seen what comes back by the way? I ask since the injector, boost and MAF codes may be triggered by the work done so far (running with turbo pipe off, maf unplugged etc). Also, did you put the injectors back in the same cylinder they came out of? Not hugely likely to cause a major issue, but they should go back in the same place (or "moved" in the ECU).

I will throw myself again on the mercies of Marc (givemeabreak) and ask, messiah of all things DB (seriously though! My knowledge is in it's infancy), am I likely to see/read anything meaningful on this vehicle without the additional connector? Surely it'd let me "see" the engine management side at least?