Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

If you ploughed through Mick's video you will see the punchline of a "battery-owned" (according the the guy on the rostrum) 2015 Renault Zoe go through the Aston Barclay Auction (I presume a mainly, maybe exclusively trade auction) for just over £3,500 hammer price. Fees on top will be from this schedule here which I interpret as being of the order of £500 plus depending on whether you are a trade or private buyer.
Yes I could see a case for buying at that sort of price battery-owned 31,000 miles. When it's on a forecourt it's going to be £5,000 at least. Similar car, similar age at local garage battery lease £6,000 on the windscreen.

Chapter and verse always involves a phone call to RCI or their successor running the residual battery leases. I have read here that on the next sale or trade in, no new leases will be offered. Maybe just plain wrong, it is only RCI who run the residual battery leasing scheme would be able to confirm. On speaking to the local dealer selling the ZOE, RCI had issued them with a lease transfer document to complete on sale of their trade-in Zoe to the next owner. Up to that point the customer who had traded in the Zoe would continue to have to pay the monthly battery lease charges, while the car remains unsold on the garage forecourt.

Maybe Gibbo could supply a bit of first hand information from his knowledge of trade auctions and his Zoe experience. Battery degradation recounted by him in previous posts has proved to be pretty minimal on his Zoe. In general the Zoe is subject to a relatively low-power AC regular charging regime. My Leaf of similar age still has 11 of 12 original bars recording battery state of health.

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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Difficult to understand the lease thing Neil, mine is still on lease and I understand they are still obliged to replace the battery if it falls below 70% SOH, i'm told on the grapevine that I could buy the lease out for about a grand, that's a decision that would need a toss of the coin to make as at the moment it's nowhere near down to 70% but sh1t happens and if I bought it out it might just collapse a couple of months later.
As for the auctions the traders get lower fees but they're usually open to all bidders trade and private, you have to pre-pay a refundable deposit and register in either case.
When I had my mot in June last year I chatted with the dealer's salesman about part exchange value of the car and he said "Only three thousand as the Zoe is to be discontinued and the prices are falling."
As I only paid just over that two years ago it didn't seem too bad to me, Maybe I'll go to auction and buy a later one then sell this one off privately. :)
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

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From RCI's point of view, for 10 Year old Zoe's having had a battery lease running for all those years...they will have "recovered" the initial price difference when new between battery-included, and battery-leased vehicles, and made their profit on top from 10 years of monthly battery-lease payments.

Can't imagine the stats are published anywhere so pure speculation from me is that RCI will have paid out next to nothing on battery replacements as a result of the the 70% SOH trigger in the agreements. In the main it will be because the batteries like yours are proving to have a greater longevity and the threshold has not been reached.

Only phoned up last week and had the conversation about the Zoe for sale at a Local Vauxhall Dealer and it has subsequently gone from their stock list. I think if they can sell a 9 year old Zoe with a leased battery for near their windscreen price of £6,000 to a member of the public, the dealer has done well. Then again they may have moved it on through the trade because with the leased battery it was too much hassle.

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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 19 Mar 2024, 12:51 I'm being teased by the dealers, this one's got my initials on it.
Image
and very nice too 52 kWh Battery (owned not leased for that gen of the Zoe), low mileage, nice colour, just over £10k, and charge at home for the bonus savings on fuel. Shot to nothing. Probably an even better plunge than my Leaf was in November 2019.

More details here

https://www.retailgroup.co.uk/renault/s ... iption%5D=

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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The last Zoe will role off the production line at the Flins plant on 30th March 2024.

It was one of the pioneers, and over 400,000 of the various incarnations of the Zoe have been produced
Even with the ZE50 from 2019 with the 52kWh battery, the pretty standard 50kW DC Rapid Charging vis a CCS port was offered as an optional extra. Prior to that the Zoe only offered AC charging via a Type 2 connector, up to around 22kW. This was perhaps an Achille's heel for the Zoe but then again helped with the longevity of their batteries through a gentler charging regime.

One of the questions for the interested in that 20 reg car would be does it have a CCS rapid charging port. Certainly helps with the odd on-the-road charge up, although home charging with that generous capacity of battery on a once a week basis, would more than cover typical weekly mileage needs of the majority of drivers choosing a Zoe.

Edit Just asked the question that vehicle doesn't have the CCS 50 kW rapid charger port.
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

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Have to say I could probably make the figures on the back of a cigarette packet work out for that Zoe. Effectively you would be buying a "new" battery and a considerable battery upgrade from the Leaf for pretty much the same deal as the Leaf was 4 years ago. Savings not as good as the previous years on electric/petrol now at half as opposed to quarter the price but still significant.

I have grown to like the Leaf though and really its a well engineered car, rapid DC charging from the start, adequate enough 6.6 kW on board charger for AC charging, a Heat Pump, and still 11 out of 12 bars on the battery after 75,000 miles and 9 years. Tempted with the Zoe, and an upgrade to a hardly used car with a decent capacity battery, but the Leaf continues to meet our needs, and is paid for, and my bargain basement bias has probably prevented pursuing a replacement at this stage. :-D

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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Just been told the red one is sold Neil, I asked about a px deal on the old Zoe he offered me £3,000 then said "sorry you've missed it", came back with a £3,200 offer against a 70 reg metallic grey one, he's going to call back tomorrow but I'll give that one a miss.
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

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Gibbo2286 wrote: 22 Mar 2024, 18:29 Just been told the red one is sold Neil, I asked about a px deal on the old Zoe he offered me £3,000 then said "sorry you've missed it", came back with a £3,200 offer against a 70 reg metallic grey one, he's going to call back tomorrow but I'll give that one a miss.
I wonder how they deal with a trade in of a battery leased vehicle. As a Renault dealer they should know the chapter and verse. I suspect that the payments on the lease will have to be met by the "trader-in" (i.e. you) until the car is sold by the Dealer to the next customer, and the motor trader will not be responsible for paying the battery lease pending that subsequent sale.

I see this grey one you on their listing. I asked them the question about the CCS 50kW DC charging port on the red one this morning. The red 20 reg didn't have a CCS port, and from the desc, and the model (and the price) I don't think the grey one will have either. Not a great deal of consequence for yourself though, unless you regularly need on-the-road charge ups. With a 52kWh battery, charge ups at home will cover most regular trips quite easily.
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I asked about the battery lease Neil the salesman said "No problem we take over the battery lease as the sale is made."
The one in your picture is the one he offered.
He also said the part exchanged car will go straight off to auction.
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 09:20 I asked about the battery lease Neil the salesman said "No problem we take over the battery lease as the sale is made."
The one in your picture is the one he offered.
He also said the part exchanged car will go straight off to auction.
That would probably be to your advantage then Gibbo. Part of the sale would be saving you the monthly payment, and acquiring a car with double the battery capacity, a virtually new car and battery with low miles, which has already had the significant depreciation paid by the previous owners, and a better resale value.

With your home charging smart meter and solar panels/storage battery, offsetting the remaining depreciation over 4 years isn't going to be that significant and residual value is unlikely to slip under £5,000. Resale or trade in at any point in ownership is going to be easier than with a leased battery.

The lack of rapid DC charging on a 70 Reg car is an oddity now, and will be more so in time and off-putting for some. Rapid DC charging on the Zoe commands a bit of a premium still in the second hand market dealer pricing so there may be some argument for a bit of a drop in the sticker price/trade in value they offer on that grey car if it doesn't have it.

Like me though the change to a newer 4 year old car (although I reckon that is the best "age" to buy a second hand EV) would will be more expensive motoring than your current car, which seems to meet your needs well. :-D

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Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 23 Mar 2024, 13:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by mickthemaverick »

As an ignoramous in Ev tech but an engineer's outlook is it possible to retrofit fast charging capability? :)
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I'm tempted Neil but the grey one doesn't get me excited, I'm going to suggest when he rings today that he keeps offering something in a similar range..

And Mick I don't think that's possible.
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Re: Used Renault Zoe-can a case be made to buy one?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 09:59 As an ignoramous in Ev tech but an engineer's outlook is it possible to retrofit fast charging capability? :)
It was an optional Extra on the Zoe Ze50 from 2019 at about £750 at the time to get the 50kW DC Rapid Charger via a CCS port.

Internet wisdom not chapter and verse but a little bit of the same question as yours here

https://www.reddit.com/r/RenaultZoe/com ... ?rdt=57098
As an engineer I share your instincts - if the blank is there in the plastic you think it should be a retrofit. Of course it’s not impossible but I imagine, due to the very different nature of DC charging (bypassing onboard charger etc) it is probably not an easy job. Probably lots of software bits to set as well, and there are rumours that ZE50s can be easily read-out, but changing variables (settings) is protected. I think you’d have a tough climb to get this done properly without any gremlins.
Also as an engineer and I feel like someone like us put it there for the retrofit. Then the finance and sales teams got involved and ruined the plans and decided the business cases didn’t stack up!
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