Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Yes James I probably interspersed some undisclosed extrapolations from the actual words in the brief "news" snippet.

"James May didn't drive his Tesla Model S for a long time and the battery died." So "long time" becomes months :-D

I don't really get what he was doing with his charger. Did he leave the car plugged into the charger for the whole of the "long time" :?: That presumably wouldn't have have put communications powered by the 12V battery to sleep and probably half the reason for the battery drain. Wonder if the 12V battery would have drained if it was just unplugged as you normally would after a charging up session, locked and put to sleep.

Yes it would not be beyond the wit of man or Tesla/Nissan or anyone else to use what would be a small proportion of the energy from a fully charged traction battery to maintain the 12V battery when the car was not being used.

I don't really know if Teslas ever go to sleep with all of those security and communications systems, Tesla Sentry and the like.

I think that's about as much as I want to delve into it on sketchy information of the circumstances, but should Simon troop along I'm sure he could give the accurate information, chapter and verse on TESLA's 12V battery management systems.

Regards Neil

PS I thought Simon had posted something up on such matters
Mandrake wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 10:19
Interestingly early Tesla Model S had a similar strategy of not keeping the 12v battery constantly topped up to 14.4 volts when the car is driving, allowing it to approximately 50% discharge before topping it up again - and they had a lot of premature 12v battery failures, sometimes as soon as 2 years, probably because regular Lead Acid batteries don't like being deeply cycled. Later versions of the Model S addressed this problem both by swapping to a deep cycle 12v battery and also modifying the charging protocol to not allow it to deeply discharge on a regular basis.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Does that not have a cigar lighter or similar socket that you could trickle charge through.

I've kept my C5 topped up whilst standing during the lockdown with a solar charger plugged into the diagnostics socket.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by myglaren »

There isn't a comfortable home for this but this thread is the closest, so:-

Maintenance and magnet-free motor
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by Sloppysod »

myglaren wrote:
16 May 2021, 08:44
There isn't a comfortable home for this but this thread is the closest, so:-

Maintenance and magnet-free motor
Interesting, but I feel it will take a long while for car manufacturers to adopt the design, the clue is in the title "..needs-no-maintenance....." which also possibly means it will run for ever and not need replacing! (this along with Teslas 100,000,000 mile battery!)
Also as a side note, before I stopped working I was made aware of friction-bearing less motors, wher the ameture shaft runs in a magnetic field, this reduces heat which thus maintaining efficiency.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

myglaren wrote:
26 May 2021, 17:00
Nissan Washington propose building huge batteries in new plant

Beebs
If talks turn into action great news. About time Nissan woke up from their slumbers. Stellantis are going to leave a nice little hole in the UK Manufacturing Market easily expanded into if they don't start having some positive plans for their Ellesmere Port and Luton plants away from an inevitable decline by continuing to make dead-end products, and Honda prematurely have exited stage left. Crank it up Nissan.

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

British Volt Blyth (well Cambois really (locally pronounced Camus))

At least there is something down on paper, better of course when they get the groundworks started but they aim for 2023 to be all up and rolling. Maybe not Tesla-esque in speed, but the sooner the better. Raising investment shouldn't be a problem, and strategically and politically it has to be seen to happen.
British Volt Planning Application 21/00818/FULES
Erection of battery manufacturing plant with ancillary offices, together with associated development and infrastructure works (including site preparation works, ground modelling, drainage, landscaping, vehicular assess, cycle and pedestrian access, parking provision, substation and other associated works) | Land At Former Power Station Site On Northern Side Of Cambois Cambois Northumberland
temp2.png
Interesting reading the comments. Local residents tend not to see the strategic view, the economic development and employment opportunities. They also forget that up to 2001 they had a pair of coal fired power stations on that site.

Image
Blyth power station2
Chris Bell, CC BY-SA 2.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0>, via Wikimedia Commons

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by myglaren »

Aluminuminum Batteries?

Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

myglaren wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 10:07
Aluminuminum Batteries?

Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
Encouraging.

The stimulus of moving away from fossil fuels is creating a new wave in innovation in batteries. Lithium-ion remains the current king and has developed on an industrial scale rather then a lab scale. The challenges scaled-up lithium ion chemistry is presenting in terms of lithium and rare earth metal supply, are stimulating further innovation.

Aluminium, and carbon is abundant and if the chaps from Australia and elsewhere can make a reliable, long life, energy dense battery which is better and cheaper than Li-Ion using more abundant and cheaper materials, that's going to be a better mousetrap with people beating a path to their door to get one.

Proof of the pudding is turning the lab work up into industrial processes and large scale production which investors are prepared to take a punt on.


REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Tomorrow's world :?: .....no cant rely on old fashioned TV, Raymond Baxter, Judith Haan or Michael Rodd to satisfy our curiosity now, but the Dave Borlace's you tube channel "just have a think" has some interesting stuff.



REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by bobins »

A few places I could plonk this in the OTCL, but I shall put it here........

Article on the BBC website:

Climate change: Will UK mining drive a green revolution?

"The rapid growth of renewable energy and electric vehicles means the demand for the minerals they rely on is set to soar. By 2030, the world could need half as much tin again, and for lithium the increase is a massive 500% by 2050 according to the World Bank. With battery production set to start in the UK, could the answer to their supply lie in the rocks of Cornwall?
We’re heading into South Crofty mine in Cornwall, where copper and tin have been excavated for hundreds of years.
With the growth of renewable energy and electric vehicles, demand for some minerals is soaring.
Lithium was discovered in Cornwall about 150 years ago, but back then there was little need for it.
It’s a very different story today.
Lithium is the main component of the batteries that electric cars use. And with the UK's ban on the sale of new diesel and petrol cars that comes into force in 2030, we will need more and more of it.
Half an hour away, we head to a site extracting the metal. It’s about as different as it gets from a deep, dusty mine.........

The UK’s demand for lithium is going to be about 75,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate from 2035, explains Jeremy Wrathall the founder and CEO of Cornish Lithium.
To put it into perspective, that's about a fifth of total global supply right now. So the UK is going to really need a lot of this stuff."

Full article here along with a short bit of film:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57534978
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by myglaren »

Britishvolt gigafactory: 'Game changer' car battery plant approved

Northumberland County Council described the plant on the site of the former Blyth power station would be a "game changer."
_115988149_bv_15.jpg
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by bobins »

By the looks of that Britishvolt factory, Cornish Lithium are going to need to hurry up a bit with their dissolving of Cornwall's bedrock in order to make that Lithium.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Euan McTurk's assessment of the raw materials which make up Lithium Ion batteries and whether they are barrier to the rapid change to electric vehicles :?: Starts off by looking at what goes into a lithium-ion cell and always nice to have a look at the periodic table, and then look at global reserves of the most contentious raw materials.

Part 1 (11 Mins) Lithium and Cobalt


Part 2 (10 mins) Recycling


REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

An interesting speculative move by Coventry, to attempt to pave the way for a Battery gigafactory at the Coventry Airport Site. Of course you need major partners, not yet secured who can take a site from outline planning of a random patch of ground, to production of batteries. Secure one of the heavyweights and its all-systems go.

Europe in general wants to compete with the far-east, in fact more than that for security of supply has ambitions to out-compete the far-east in one of those "lead the world" political quests. It has a tremendous amount of catching up to do, and currently even "made in USA" flag wavers over the pond, rely heavily at this stage of development on the likes of LG Energy Solutions, SKI, and CATL for the latest projects. The biggest battery firms in the world are based in South-East Asia.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... e-57842375

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 21 Jul 2021, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

So how do you get a battery factory up and running relatively quickly if you want one :?:

State aid and a bit of favourable finance from the home country in the case of SKI's 2nd plant in Hungary. Of course the EU like to deliberate and they don't want to have batteries from China Japan and South Korea being imported into the EU, or damaging the French and German projects the EU currently support. Still this one got the green light eventually. Plenty of wriggle room in state-aid rules when it suits.
Regards Neil