Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by myglaren »

Nukular batterbies.




In a store near you now.

Probably.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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NewcastleFalcon wrote: 23 May 2022, 18:19
One of the reports mentioned the six vehicles caught in the fire were 4 diesel buses, and 2 hybrid buses. It may be some time before "who/what started it" emerges, although the press are writing their stories already. They tend to use Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in buses which are much less prone to catching fire than any other Li-ion chemistry.

I dont have any concerns that my leaf is going to catch fire anytime soon, but I do have reservations about all of these super high power chargers to save the impatient motorist 10 minutes at a chargepoint, by zapping a large lithium ion battery with 350kW to charge it up.

Will there be enough left to investigate and nail down the cause? Time will tell.

Regards Neil
I have ported this into this thread, as it relates to probably the most important discussion re Lithium Ion batteries, not range or energy density, weight, rare earth metals, mining, longevity etc etc but safety.

There has been a recent spate of Bus fires, luckily without and injuries, but providing some disturbing footage on you tube of the resulting inferno's. No need for this thread to shy away from such occurrences , or indeed to dismiss them as happens in some EV circles with the cliche "ICE's also catch fire on a daily basis, much more so than EV's, but dont make the headlines like EV fires do."

Vehicles shouldn't catch fire of whatever persuasion, fail safe systems should prevent fires happening, even when vehicles carry energy dense petrol/diesel or stored chemical energy in a Lithium-ion battery.

There have been the well publicised fires with cars, like the LG Chem/Hyundai/General Motors recalls to rectify failures which led to a number of battery fires, and some draconian advice to owners re home charging, and software "fixes" to restrict the state of charge down from 100%. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-08-27/



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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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<Tongue firmly in cheek> Wonder if anyone's ever calculated how many tailpipe emissions all that black smoke is the equivalent of ? :rofl2:
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Causes need finding, and rectified, examples are not that difficult to find.

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. (Albert Einstein)
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Steve's post on Energy Matters Global and domestic relevant to this thread
myglaren wrote: 05 Jun 2022, 21:39
REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Some more battery developments, courtesy of The Register.

I get regular (daily) emails from The Register and while not associated with batteries, infrastructure, hydrogen and the like, is quite disturbing.

AI.
At some point during his investigation, however, Lemoine appears to have started to believe that the AI was expressing signs of sentience. The engineer, who has written about his experience, says he repeatedly tried to escalate his concerns but was rejected on the grounds that he lacked evidence.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Out of curiosity had a little explore of the site of the Britishvolt battery factory at Cambois Northumberland. If it were a Tesla project there would be the shell of the factory up by now. This is the current state of play, the first thing is of course fencing the site off and putting up some artists impressions of the finished thing at the boundary. Tick...
DSC01941.JPG
DSC01945.JPG
DSC01942.JPG
DSC01943.JPG
DSC01944.JPG
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by mickthemaverick »

Dave's video today definitely relevant to this thread: :-D

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by mickthemaverick »

This came in today's newsletter from Parkers and I think it may be of interest to some followers of this thread: :-D

How long do electric car batteries last?
23 June 2022 by Cat Dow
Parkers electric cars

We explain how long they last...
And why that matters
How long do electric car batteries last?Enlarge3photosMain image captionHow long do electric car batteries last?
Electric vehicle (EV) battery technology is a pretty fascinating area if you like to geek out on physics and chemistry experiments. Since most motorists simply want a reliable car that will get them from A to B safely and expediently, if all you came here for is to understand how long your electric car’s battery will last, relative to the lifetime of the car, we’ll spare you the school lesson.

This question is especially important to you, if you’re looking at the used car market. As the cost of electric car batteries continues to fall and the used electric car market grows, affording the switch to electric mobility is becoming more realistic for many of us.

While generally batteries have been acknowledged to outlast the cars they power, the lifespan of a battery depends on how much the elements inside the battery have degraded. That in turn depends on how they’ve been used and (fingers crossed not) abused.

Let’s consider the factors that affect how long your EV car battery lasts:
The EV battery technology
How time affects your EV battery
What are battery cycles?
How heat can affect the life of your EV battery
Other factors affecting electric car batteries
How to maximise the life of your EV battery
How your electric car warranty protects you and your battery
How long do electric car batteries last?
Like most good things in life, batteries don’t last forever. They degrade over time, because they’re not power banks. When connected to a circuit, they generate power through a chemical reaction. It is the elements used in this reaction that deplete over time, wearing away with each charge and discharge (a cycle). Throw in the fact that any movement of electrons creates some heat too, and degradation is easy to understand.

Batteries are made from an anode, cathode and electrolyte. There’s also cabling which can affect performance too.

How time affects your battery
Electric car batteries are surprisingly reliable, as shown in this Geotab study, which tested 21 electric models across a fleet of over 6000 cars. This means even used car batteries will perform well, especially if they’re only a couple of years old. Once EVs start hitting the eight to 10-year-old mark, there may be a little bit of drop off in range. However old the vehicle, the manufacturers have ways to remove the cells that are no longer performing as expected and replacing them to maintain the performance of the battery. The cell packs that are removed are put to use in secondary applications, such as a household energy storage. We’ll come onto whether your warranty covers replacement below.

How charge and discharge cycles affect the battery lifespan
When a battery is used, the energy is discharged. When a battery is charged, it charges and both actions are together known as a cycle. Batteries, especially ones intended for automotive use, are put through thousands of cycles to determine their expected longevity. As mentioned above, cycles degrade the materials inside the battery cell. Essentially with less material to chemically react with, less power is generated.

The State of Charge (SoC) is the percentage of power in a battery. EV drivers are advised to charge between 20-80% SoC to minimise degradation.

How heat affects the life of an electric car battery
The chemical reactions that happen in the batteries to create the power for the device create their own heat energy, but speed up that process and hey presto, temperatures increase too.

Managing this heat is key to ensuring the battery doesn’t frazzle. Like a runner embarking on an endurance run, when an electric car is first connected to a charging point, the charging components are a bit cooler.

Electric car charging
As they heat up, the chemical reactions are happening at peak comfort—at this point, our runner is settled into their pace, their breathing is rhythmic and they’ve reached their optimum flow.

Then the sun comes out and the water bottle empties, our runner begins to struggle and slows the pace. In the same way, the batteries are getting a bit too warm. Too hot and they could cause a fire, so the charging technology slows the rate of charge.

By protecting the batteries in this way, electric car drivers can rest assured that the likelihood of a fire is extremely low and that any damage to the life of the battery is minimised. Though repeated rapid charging will degrade the battery quicker.

Other factors affecting battery life
If a power line came down on your vehicle, or you were struck by lightning, the high electric current forced into the battery at that moment could fry the unit. Of course, it’s safe to drive electric cars in thunderstorms. Car makers place the battery packs in protective units to ensure maximum occupant safety in any situation.

How to prolong electric car battery life
You want to protect the life of your battery. Not only do you not want the expense of replacing an EV battery (they’re really expensive), but when you come to sell your car, you don’t want the embarrassment of saying ‘yeah, when I first bought this car, it was good for 200 miles, but now can do barely 70.’

To get the best out of your electric vehicle’s battery and ensure you don’t accelerate the rate of degradation, you can:

Use slower chargers

While rapid chargers are brilliant for long journeys, or when you’re really in a pinch and need juice in a hurry, batteries constantly being charged up in this way won’t perform at their peak for the longest amount of time.

Learning how an electric vehicle can fit into your lifestyle takes a bit of time, which is why subscription models like Onto and companies like EVHire are essential, as they give you the chance to try before you buy.

How to prolong an electric car battery
Don’t run to 0%

Running to 0% then putting the battery to sit on charge to 100% is another way you’ll deplete the battery sooner. Topping up regularly is better.

Electric car battery warranties
In a last ditch attempt at customer reassurance, manufacturers offer warranties on their batteries, usually up to a set mileage or over a set time—and often longer than those covering the vehicle itself.

Should the battery fall below the expected capacity—around 70%—during the warranty period, the manufacturer commits to repair or replace the battery. The table below lists the models, the warranty length for both the vehicle and the battery and minimum acceptable capacity before the manufacturer will consider the claim valid.

Below, you’ll find all the manufacturer warranty lengths

> Audi eight years/100,000 miles/n/a
> BMW eight years/100,000 miles/70%
> Honda eight years/100,000 miles/70%
> Hyundai eight years/125,000 miles/70%
> Jaguar eight years/100,000 miles/70%
> Kia seven years/100,000 miles/70%
> Mercedes eight years/100,000 miles/70%
> MG seven years/80,000 miles/70%
> Nissan eight years/100,000 miles/75%
> Polestar eight years/100,000 miles
> Porsche eight years/100,000 miles
> Renault eight years/100,000 miles/66%
> SEAT eight years/100,000 miles/70%
> Smart eight years/62,500 miles/n/a
> Tesla eight years/120,000-150,000 miles/70%
> VW eight years/100,000 miles/n/a
> Volvo eight years/100,000 miles/n/a
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Cambridgeshire's day in the spotlight.

An EV "problem" that doesn't need solving.....faster charging

Still people across the world are seeking a solution to charge up in 5 minutes. The startup Nyobolt uses battery research developed by Cambridge University scientist Dame Prof Clare Philomena Grey.

Rather than quote the article straight away which has the title "A 5-minute EV charging startup raises $59 million", I will quote one of the comments, often quite pithy in their nature, but which sometimes hit the nail on the head.
"5 minute charge times" (whatever that turns out to mean in detail) are useless in almost all cases. For most people right now, a Tesla Model Y adds 15-30 minutes to a 12 hour road trip. I never stop for less than 10 minutes, once you account for bathroom breaks and snacks, and if you stand in line for a Starbucks you'll be lucky to get away in 20 minutes total. If you can go from 10-80% in 15 minutes, most people will see no change in road trip time from an ICE. (Also most people spend a tiny fraction of their driving time on road trips.)

Then you have to account for how you build a charging station that delivers that much power. 70% of 70 kWh is 50 kWh. To get that in 5 minutes you need 600 kW of power. 800 V at 750 amps!

They're barking up the wrong metric.
Anyway, the idea is to use Tungsten and Niobium in the Anode, believe it if or when it happens, decades henceforth.
Unsurprisingly the firm putting up a large chunk of the funds is in the Tungsten business. Expect a few of the 5-minute chargers to catch fire, or the vehicle they are charging to catch fire, before the "ideas" are turned into reality.

3 minute read unless you delve into the comments
Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

myglaren wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 20:40 Batter factory funding approved.

Britishvolt: Electric car battery plant's funding confirmed
£100 Million


Over in the USA worried about China's domination of EV battery manufacturing
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