Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

All in the "reportedly" category now, but If something is in short supply, and there is growing demand up goes the price.

Of course its just business, whatever the validity of the reasons trotted out. If BYD can continue to blow the competion away, without losing market share through increasing prices then its just selling your products for what the market will bear. Lose a couple of big contracts to CATL, or other competitors, if they dont follow suit, and BYD will be back in line pronto.

The comments section makes an interesting read, and it is mainly USA based (and biased?)
Here's one as. a flavour
Spoiler: show
Comment from Solarman
BYD currently develops battery technologies for use around the globe, owning the complete supply chain layout from mineral to battery cells to battery packs for energy storage.
IF you 'own' the supply chain there's only a couple of reasons left to support a "price increase", extraction and shipping has increased way beyond the actual materials used or a decision by the upper 'management' to place the 'price hike' on a product to gain more cash assets for a future expansion move or distill this down to profit taking, just because.
With global supply setbacks on the heels of a global pandemic, BYD is reportedly raising battery prices to account for the additional raw material costs it faces as a result.
Completely contrary statements, "owning the supply chain" and "additional raw material costs..." BYD is in the process of increasing cash flow by 20%, what will be done with the "windfall" is yet to be seen. This is how OPEC came into being and see how it ended up with the petroleum industry? The countries of the World need to decide right now, how electrification of the grid and transportation will be handled. The size and scope of such an endeavor comes down to the level of national security by not developing a nation's own materials supply chain 'and' recycling chain, you are at the mercy of someone else's determination of cost and value.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Battery recycling News in the UK.

The French waste management company Veolia has announced its first electric vehicle battery recycling plant in the UK. The factory in Minworth in the West Midlands is to have enough capacity to process 20% of the UK’s end of life electric vehicle batteries by 2024.

Veolia to build battery recycling plant in the UK


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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

This is the most appropriate thread for consideration of battery replacements at the end of their useful life.
All very not quite developed yet, for either a co-ordinated recycling approach and responsibility, or an aftermarket for replacement battery packs.

This was posted on another thread but is a very good video on a development in New Zealand, for the most loved of all electric cars...the Nissan Leaf and aiming to offer a new improved redesigned battery. It's new, it's well designed and I guess it will be a "you pay for what you get" price. That will be a critical factor...do you want to keep your old Leaf albeit with a better, more range, battery pack or will there be alternatives available at that point which make buying a new vehicle a better choice than replacing the battery on your old one.

I can see the much maligned original leasing of batteries on the pioneer Renault Zoe/Fluence making a comeback for replacement battery packs, as the capital cost of replacement packs is at the point of need currently likely to be prohibitive to make it a sound choice.




This is a bit of an old post, but at the time hinted at a more affordable battery refurbishment scheme in Japan.
NewcastleFalcon wrote: 10 Sep 2021, 09:41 I thought I had posted something up about a Nissan Scheme in Japan.
NewcastleFalcon wrote: 07 Apr 2021, 23:54 This is a 2018 story but far more encouraging, and what it should be...Over in Japan...
Cost of replacing the Nissan LEAF’s Batteries DROPS 90% in seven years

The cost of replacing the batteries in a Nissan LEAF has dropped to just £2,000, thanks to a new Nissan scheme to offer refabricated batteries in Japan.
Cant confirm the validity but that is much more like it. As the comments on the article state Nissan UK do not have a refurbished battery scheme, and it doesn't appear to have travelled out of Japan. One commenter indicated that as at the date of the post (28/1/2020) Nissan UK offered a Battery Replacement at £17,000 plus VAT. I guess at that price they have replaced zero batteries , and aren't really trying.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by bobins »

As I've said many times before, the average age of a UK car on the road is around 8 years old and that suits the car manufacturers quite nicely thank you very much. It's not in their interests to extend that age.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The VW Chief is keen to retain control over batteries from the ID series of Cars as reported in the link.
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ ... -batteries

“In Europe, we are trying to get a second lease and even a third lease, and keep the car in our hands,” Diess said. “Battery life we think today is about 1,000 charging cycles and around 350,000 kilometers [about 215,000 miles], something like that. So, the battery would probably live longer than the car, and we want to get hold of the battery. We don’t want to give the battery away.”
NewcastleFalcon wrote: 08 Sep 2021, 23:54 Herbert Diess, Maybe not as universally well known as Elon Musk, but the driving force towards VW group's electrification.

He's been speaking at the IAA in Munich. about an old idea, well trialed and ultimately rejected by Renault and Nissan, and in the form of Battery as a service very much alive with NIO.

Yes Battery Leasing for Used VW EV's. More along the lines of VW want the expired batteries from their cars to recycle into other products, when they come to the end of their useful lives as traction batteries in their cars.

Volkswagen Says It Will Lease Used EVs To Maintain Control Over Its Batteries
Volkswagen says it will begin leasing used EVs


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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Whats happening at Blyth :?:

Probably a few earthmovers doing some groundworks, but the most significant thing happening has to be outside of Blyth, partnering with auto manufacturers, and securing supply chains. Bit of courting of Lotus and Aston Martin going on, but they probably need a big volume player on board.

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There is one of those about sodium batteries by the nice Indian lady.
Meant to post it but let it get away from me.

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

What is the closest out of the laboratory to Commercial Scale production in Battery Evolution.

Probably CATL and the Sodium Ion Battery.

A change from an arm waving American...subtitles tell the story CATL launch event Sodium Ion Battery July 2021.

Not currently for electric vehicles and more suited to stationary applications where size/weight is less important. Lithium gives far and away the best energy density for batteries, but sodium is more abundant has similar properties but has greater mass.



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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by myglaren »

That was strange!
Neil's was posted first, mine was a response to his and posted later.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by RichardW »

No just me, I moved yours from another thread, whereas Neil had posted his own, and it now appears out of order!
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The other battery tech making its way out of the Lab is solid state. I think this video gives a very good overview of the current status of the development, and an interesting position of the world's largest Battery Manufacturer CATL.

Theelectricviking, has a decent youtube channel here,
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjzi56 ... xpg/videos



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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Steve posted this on another thread, relevant to the thread here

viewtopic.php?p=710443#p710443

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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NewcastleFalcon wrote: 14 Feb 2022, 10:47 Whats happening at Blyth :?:

Probably a few earthmovers doing some groundworks, but the most significant thing happening has to be outside of Blyth, partnering with auto manufacturers, and securing supply chains. Bit of courting of Lotus and Aston Martin going on, but they probably need a big volume player on board.

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..and today

Britishvolt & Aston Martin to develop EV batteries

Britishvolt has entered into a development partnership with Aston Martin for electric car batteries.

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

More interesting fully charged content from Dr Helen Czerski

A look at battery recycling, with German Company Duesenfeld.
Early days of course because the volume of returned batteries is small. The life cycle of a traction battery in an electric car, should follow a path of

first use...providing motive power and an an acceptable range for use in a motor vehicle
second use....stationary electrical storage
end use...recycling to recover as high a percentage of its original elements as possible.

It will be some years before significant volumes of batteries end up at the end use of recycling although VW, former Tesla founder JB Straubel's Redwood Materials, and others are planning for big scale battery recycling. Makes sense. There is a great deal higher concentration of Lithium in a spent battery than in any of the ores or brines extracted and processed from the earth or the sea.



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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by mickthemaverick »

Dave has been looking at the potential (no pun intended) of Sodium instead of Lithium for battery production. There are many feasible advantages:

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!