Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I'll nick the second story for the infrastructure thread Gibbo, interesting bit of window dressing but probably best implemented a few years ago together with a few enforceable rules like mandatory access for all without having to join a "club", before the stable door was opened and the horses bolted.

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

What's the going rate for getting TESLA to build a battery factory in your back yard?

The German Government are looking at round about $1 billion.

What about State Aid rules :?:

Worry not, IPCEI conveniently get round those, and save the day on that score (Important Projects of Common European Interest).

Read all about it
https://electrek.co/2021/09/06/tesla-ts ... ry-berlin/

REgards Neil
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bobins
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by bobins »

^^^^^^^

All countries are equal, but some countries are more equal than others. 8-[
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Herbert Diess, Maybe not as universally well known as Elon Musk, but the driving force towards VW group's electrification.

He's been speaking at the IAA in Munich. about an old idea, well trialed and ultimately rejected by Renault and Nissan, and in the form of Battery as a service very much alive with NIO.

Yes Battery Leasing for Used VW EV's. More along the lines of VW want the expired batteries from their cars to recycle into other products, when they come to the end of their useful lives as traction batteries in their cars.

Volkswagen Says It Will Lease Used EVs To Maintain Control Over Its Batteries
Volkswagen says it will begin leasing used EVs


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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by Gibbo2286 »

That Zoe on the AMS auction site has a leased battery currently priced a £49 a month. A close look at the terms shows the rate goes according to mileage and for £49 you only get 4500 miles annually.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Decent little run through of the State of play of Battery Technologies. There is a new one every day, promise of solid state batteries, and 1 in a 100 might make its way out of the lab and be 5-10 years away from commercialisation.

The most promising of the contenders nearest to comercialisation is the Na-ion battery, and CATL have produced cells comparable to current Li-ion LFP cells. The raw materials of Na-ion batteries are considerably more abundant than Li-ion.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/09/14/ne ... ew-really/
"In July of this year, CATL announced it had developed sodium-ion battery cells with an energy density of 160 Wh/kg. The best lithium-ion cells can store 240 Wh/kg, but LFP cells are close to that 160 Wh/kg figure. CATL says it plans to get the energy density of its sodium batteries up to 200 Wh/kg by the time production begins in 2023. In August, China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology said it would prioritize the development, standardization, and commercialization of sodium-ion technology.
REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The best is not always what wins out in the race. Currently LiFEPO4 (aka LFP) less energy dense, cheaper materials, no cobalt, more robust, less likely to catch fire, are becoming the chemistry that is beginning to win out.

With LG Energy Solutions recent troubled history of battery fires in association with Hyundai and GM in particular but others, not that surprising they have plans for LiFEPO4.
LG Energy Solution is developing LFP battery cells

The upcoming end of patent restrictions on LFP and the recent problems with fires in NCM battery cells seem to have pushed LG Energy Solution to consider the super-safe and inexpensive LFP chemistry.

Patent restrictions over LFP cathode chemistry will start to expire in 2022, then battery cell makers will be able to produce LFP cells outside China without paying royalties.
In the battery world and EV's in General, China's BYD are worth watching, they appear to be pushing themselves ahead of the competition. Sleeping, can't do, can't keep up, things are going faster than we can cope with, cosy price cartel, European carmakers beware. :-D

https://pushevs.com/2021/08/10/this-is- ... mpetition/

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Ed and his icecream van have had a few mentions on the FCF. Its a long one I'm afraid but plenty to learn, and he does a very good explanation of batteries along the way.

Havent watched it all yet paused at the 9 minute mark, but I reckon I'll give it the full watch sometime.



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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by Dormouse »

Have watched this and it is a fair explanation of what is involved as is the vlog from the Late Brake Show presenter about his Enfield 8000 record breaking car build, but Gibbo's Owen Magnetic takes the biscuit, the cup and the saucer! Chevy Volt eat your heart out and bow down to the great grand daddy of Hybrids. Wonder what else will turn up to show us how skilled engineers were and just how much we take as new is not.
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by mickthemaverick »

Yes I follow Edd and saw that on its release. Well worth a watch for the less electronically trained members. :-D
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

3 major battery projects are at various stages of "underwayness" in the UK. Others may be taked about, and articles back in June clocked up six altogether.

https://www.electrive.com/2021/06/17/uk ... batteries/

In order of likelyhood, the Nissan development with their formerly owned AESC now Envision AESC majority owned by China has the least hurdles to jump through, has been done before and has a guaranteed market for its production. The other two, not being partnered as yet by either a carmaker or an existing large scale battery producer are more in the securing investment and partners stage.
Coventry
West Midlands Gigafactory, the public-private joint venture between Coventry City Council and Coventry Airport Ltd
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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

More evidence of the LFP battery becoming the battery of choice in particular with BYD's blade battery, even for TESLA on its standard models.
Tesla announced in the context of its most recent financial results that it will switch these standard-range models to LFP batteries worldwide. Until now, Tesla has relied on LFP cells from CATL for the standard range models built in Shanghai.
BYD's blade battery has a bit of an edge in that packs constructed with the blade battery can currently achieve energy densities in excess of its competitors. Tesla batteries with CATL cells come to an energy density of 126 Wh/kg, but the blade batteries come to 150 Wh/kg.
In addition to the cobalt-free cell chemistry (as with all LFP cells), the blade batteries are also said to offer low costs. The portal PushEVs writes of “an estimated 55 euros per kilowatt-hour”, or 64 dollars/kWh. BYD itself also repeatedly emphasises the high safety of the blade battery compared to other lithium-ion batteries. Later, BYD stated in another announcement that the battery should last 1.2 million kilometres or 3,000 charging cycles.
No doubt CATL, pretty much in the lead on Sodium Ion battery chemistry development, and others will respond, catch up, overtake, as competition spurs rapid development.

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Further to the league table of likelyness Nissan/ Envision AESC have upped their original plans for the Sunderland development.

Envision AESC aims for 38 GWh in Sunderland

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Re: Electric Vehicles:Batteries and recycling

Post by myglaren »

Just had a local council blurb sheet through the door with that in. Don't usually read it but was waiting for pasta to cook so what else do you do?
Nothing useful that is certain.