Public and Commercial Transport

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van ordinaire
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Re: Public Transport

Post by van ordinaire »

By "etc" I take it you mean heath & safety & building standards. Chinese infrastructure seems to have a disturbingly high failure rate.

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Public Transport

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I've used and observed some public transport again!

Have to say long distance coach travel is cheap by Megabus or National Express. My definition of long distance is Newcastle to Manchester. No idea how anyone survives Newcastle to Cardiff via Sunderland Middlesborough Leeds and Birmingham.

Must admit, with the trams and the buses, and local rail services in Manchester there are still far too many cars choking up the city's roads.

Arrived 6 oclock ish, and trams were crammed, and while they get free rein on some streets, others they share with the rest, and you see trams in a traffic jam nose to tail with cars/buses. Maybe its because in the past carparks...particularly multi storey were built slap bang in the middle of cities, so shame to waste them, clog up city centres with cars.

So the NF, poorly-researched, knee-jerk solution to Manchesters traffic problems.....get the cars away from the trams, and get rid knock down redevelop city centre car parks, and make park and rides on the outskirts as cheap as possible.

I was surprised how busy the eating places in Manchester were at 6 o'clock on a Monday, but I believe the city does a "half-price Monday! at various eateries.

Actually got a seat on the train from Oxford Road, it came within 10 Minutes, and got me where I was going no bother. Others may not have been so lucky, with Trans Pennine Express which was delayed due to a restricted speed section which was probably understandable given the torrential rain in the Pennines at the weekend.

I also did a taxi ride at the very start of the journey as the Tyne and Wear Metro let me down due to restricted running and the 24 minutes I would have had to wait for the next Metro, would have meant me missing the bus to Manchester. He had a Euro 6 Diesel, and in the 10 minutes in his car, I hadnt convinced him to get a Kia e-Niro instead. He was quite happy with his car, always buys new, and regularly changes.

Public transport tale ends!

Regards Neil

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Public Transport

Post by mickthemaverick »

I used the Trans Pennine Express last year from Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly and I was amazed to find it only had two coaches!! Is that the norm Neil or was I just unlucky? :)

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Public Transport

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 19:40
I used the Trans Pennine Express last year from Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly and I was amazed to find it only had two coaches!! Is that the norm Neil or was I just unlucky? :)
Too infrequent a traveller to know that Mick, but definitely could have done with a few more coaches the last time I travelled from Manchester to Leeds. They kept requesting folk travelling to Leeds to voluntarily get off at Huddersfield and catch the train behind to ease the congestion on our train. Trans Pennine Express are a brand of the First Group. Think its just Northern Rail getting the boot with yet another "franchise failure".

REgards Neil

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Public Transport

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Yes anyone else got any first hand public transport tales :?:

For me it tends to be a last resort, or when it is "on offer" at a knockdown price. Long distance coach travel compared to local stuff is very good VFM, if a bit of a nightmare :-D

Yes and the view from the high up megabus makes you realise that the mobile phone usage while driving HGV's is rife still. As is the use by fellow travellers on public transport, it really is a total addiction.

Regards Neil

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Public Transport

Post by mickthemaverick »

Since I got my bus pass a few years ago I have only used it on 4 or 5 occasions. Always when the journey was essential and a) my journey was too far to walk in the time available b) all my vehicles were unavailable for one reason or another c) I wasn't able to beg a lift and d) I couldn't afford a taxi. Having commuted into London by Greenline coach or train for 15 years I made a decision to only use public transport (excluding flying) when all four of the above applied. I used to hate the inevitable garlic eaters, smokers, drinkers and the great unwashed, one of whom I encountered on a daily basis and now I thoroughly appreciate the air conditioned fresh and quiet environment I travel in, under my control, so much that if I cannot use private transport I don't travel at all. Retirement lets me stick to that and I love it!! :)

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Public Transport

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Image

Sounds like a very British traditional company. They make buses/Fire engines that type of thing.?

HQ...in Scotland, Larbert no less....right next door to Stenhousemuir....notable in the "football results" or on your pools coupon, and McCowans Highland Toffee.

They took over another Icon of the Bus and Coach trade, Plaxtons but Alexander Dennis themselves were sold, and operate as subsidiary of Canadian Group NFI.

Still some good news for UK Manufacturing as they have partnered with China's BYD, the market leader, and are producing electric buses.

"The new BYD ADL Enviro400EV is built in Britain at ADL's facility in Scarborough, Yorkshire, using BYD components assembled into a powered chassis built in Europe at BYD's plant in Komarom, Hungary.

So good news for UK Assembly, and Scarborough as orders flow in for BYD ADL Enviro400EV including

London’s Route 94 Gets An Upgrade With 29 New Electric Double-Decker Buses From BYD

So news that China's BYD are selling Buses hand over fist, can have a consequent benefit to UK manufacturing.

REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 26 Feb 2020, 15:31, edited 1 time in total.

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white exec
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Re: Public Transport

Post by white exec »

Hundreds of these now in London, and Glasgow, Manchester, Cambridge, across Europe, South America...
ADL Enviro400EV bus.jpg
And the single decker Enviro200, too...
ADL Enviro200EV Glasgow.jpg
Great news in itself, and for BYD and Alexander-Dennis.

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Mandrake
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Re: Public Transport

Post by Mandrake »

I've been catching the bus this week (actually two buses) due to two broken down cars, unfortunately the double decker bus I catch into Glasgow although made by Alexander Dennis (as all buses up here seem to be!) and run by First Bus is still a big smelly noisy Diesel thing with loads of vibration and a very lurchy gearbox, same as it was 3 years ago when I stopped getting the bus...

The local route near my house is an Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 but it is not a BEV. It is a mild hybrid and as far as I can tell works much like a Prius using an electric motor for regenerative braking and to help it move off the line, but other than that it's still a noisy Diesel with the Diesel engine driving the wheels nearly all the time! See below brochure which has a thing in the back that looks suspiciously like a Diesel engine...

https://www.alexander-dennis.com/media/ ... ochure.pdf

Edit: There is no electrical hybrid version of the Enviro 200 according to the brochure, however there is a "flywheel hybrid" version which is probably what my local one is... :lol:

The green one pictured above must be a new BEV variant of the Enviro 200, but I have not seen any in service around here yet, (apart from two at Buchanan bus station that seem to be perpetually plugged in charging) and there are a lot of regular Enviro 200's (with Diesel engine) used by First Bus for local routes around Glasgow.

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Re: Public Transport

Post by RichardW »

We are moving office in a few weeks, from Grangemouth to Glasgow. Now, there is no (realistic) chance of getting PT to Grangemouth from where I live, but you'd have thought that Glasgow would be a go-er. The office is just to the south of the city centre, just off the end of the motorway and we currently have the luxury of a free carpark and it is outside of the proposed ULEZ. The train from Lanark goes into the station in the centre which is a good 25 mins walk from the office, but there is an underground station close to the office. So I could :

Walk to the station: 15 mins (it's all uphill from the house!)
Get the train to central: 50 mins
Get the tube to near the office: 15 mins (say, to allow for getting to the station)
Walk to the office: 5 mins

Total 1h 25min; cost is about £2k/yr £1.5k train and £0.5k tube.

Or I could drive... 35 mins in the morning; probably nearer 45 in the evening due to traffic. It's about 25 miles so the cost is about £1400 pa at 47mpg, plus the wear / tear on the car puts it near the cost of the PT. I certainly intend to take the near 2h time 'saving' / day in the first instance. Might review that if the traffic turns out to be a 'mare....!

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Mandrake
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Re: Public Transport

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
26 Feb 2020, 14:08
We are moving office in a few weeks, from Grangemouth to Glasgow.
Welcome to Glasgow, fellow worker. You will be assimilated. :lol:
Now, there is no (realistic) chance of getting PT to Grangemouth from where I live, but you'd have thought that Glasgow would be a go-er. The office is just to the south of the city centre, just off the end of the motorway and we currently have the luxury of a free carpark and it is outside of the proposed ULEZ. The train from Lanark goes into the station in the centre which is a good 25 mins walk from the office, but there is an underground station close to the office. So I could :

Walk to the station: 15 mins (it's all uphill from the house!)
Get the train to central: 50 mins
Get the tube to near the office: 15 mins (say, to allow for getting to the station)
Walk to the office: 5 mins

Total 1h 25min; cost is about £2k/yr £1.5k train and £0.5k tube.

Or I could drive... 35 mins in the morning; probably nearer 45 in the evening due to traffic. It's about 25 miles so the cost is about £1400 pa at 47mpg, plus the wear / tear on the car puts it near the cost of the PT. I certainly intend to take the near 2h time 'saving' / day in the first instance. Might review that if the traffic turns out to be a 'mare....!
I'll tell you what's a nightmare, the Lanark train from Glasgow Central around 5:20pm - that's the one I used to get to Motherwell when I used the train.

Hugely over crowded, often running late with seemingly hundreds of people waiting for it, so it was always a mad dash to get a seat. And half the time a half length train would arrive and then it was real sardines time. A very unpleasant train. I would drive if I were you especially with free parking!!!

Just think, with an EV that £1400 a year in fuel would be more like £450 for charging. :) (Although I'm a little sceptical that you'll average 47MPG in rush hour motorway traffic! So the difference is probably greater even before considering maintenance costs)

Public transport just doesn't work for many people at least without severe inconvenience, and sometimes not at all. If you have a family and are already busy, losing a further two hours a day to travel is a step too far. We are in a similar situation and even with driving - which works far better for us than public transport, it still feels like the days are long and tiring due to all the travelling we do even with a car.

Strangely there are some ultra militant people on EV forums (like speakev) of all places which are always banging on that EV's don't solve anything and just perpetuate the reliance on cars, and that instead of driving people should be walking, riding bikes and using public transport to solve the worlds woes! And don't seem to have any understanding that those things simply can't work for some people.

We really can't do without a car and this week with two broken cars has been a nightmare that has really brought this home to roost - I've ended up packing SWMBO and Joshua off to stay with her mum until one of the cars is fixed so he's already where he needs to be for nursery in the mornings. There just wasn't any other way to do it without someone having to take what is fast becoming a week off work and catching trains and buses to get to and from nursery.

So I absolutely 100% need a car, but I'm happy for one of them to be an EV, certainly for the daily commute and running around. I can't see myself going back to ICE only even though it's going to cost me a lot more money up front to buy an increased range EV than just buying another old petrol banger! (Got one of those already... :lol: ) However running costs will be substantially less and to be honest a good EV is just a nicer drive especially in rush hour commuting.

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myglaren
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Re: Public Transport

Post by myglaren »

I well remember Plaxtons being in Scarborough. I remember my dad taking parts to be sandblasted at their factory - he worked at a shipyard in Whitby.

And Alexander in Sunderland. Had a lecture from the MD at the time, nice woman, but I forget the circumstances. Their factory was on the same industrial estate as a computer parts supplier I used to use.
All a very long time ago though.

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Re: Public Transport

Post by RichardW »

Mandrake wrote:
26 Feb 2020, 15:04

Just think, with an EV that £1400 a year in fuel would be more like £450 for charging. :) (Although I'm a little sceptical that you'll average 47MPG in rush hour motorway traffic! So the difference is probably greater even before considering maintenance costs)
I'll be in the office before 7, and running out at 4, so should avoid the traffic most days - and the office is in Tradeston just off the end of the M74, so it mightn't be too bad.

30kWh Leaf is best part of £10k to change, and doesn't look big enough to me, so I won't be doing that anytime soon.... I might consider it in 4 or 5 years when the 3008 is worn out :?

Ideally I would bike to Carluke, then get the train to Cambuslang and then bike from there, but that would be 2+ hours each way, which might not go down that well at home :rofl2:

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Mandrake
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Re: Public Transport

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
26 Feb 2020, 16:29
I'll be in the office before 7, and running out at 4, so should avoid the traffic most days - and the office is in Tradeston just off the end of the M74, so it mightn't be too bad.
7am!!!! I'm leaving the house just after 7. :lol:
30kWh Leaf is best part of £10k to change, and doesn't look big enough to me, so I won't be doing that anytime soon.... I might consider it in 4 or 5 years when the 3008 is worn out :?
Yeah they're still not cheap, but keep in mind you're talking about a 3 year old car, vs selling a 9 year old Ion which is still worth about £5k. As for not big enough - not as big as a Picasso no, but I was comparing the dimensions to the Xantia yesterday, wheelbase, body length and width almost identical to the Xantia within a couple of cm. A little bit taller and higher driving position but not as tall as the Ion which is almost crossover seating height. Inside is a true 5 seater and looks reasonably spacious and comfortable on photos and comparable to the Xantia but I have not sat in one, yet. About 100Kg heavier than the Xantia at 1570Kg depending on trim so not bad really when you consider batteries are heavy and an e-Niro weighs 1850Kg.

Boot size is 370 litres vs the 340(?) litres of a Xantia hatchback so actually slightly more room in the boot than the Xantia on paper, however the boot is tall and deep but not as long as the Xantia, has significant suspension coil spring protuberance and the rear seats don't fold down fully flat like the do in the Xantia or Ion. So while you'll get a lot of squishy bags into a Leaf it wouldn't be as good at carrying large physical loads like flat packs, furniture etc. So the Leaf is basically a Xantia sized car in a slightly different not quite as optimal shape. Considering it would be replacing the Ion not the Xantia it would still a big step up in accommodation and comfort for our daily driver as the Ion is starting to feel really cramped and limited!

I'm hanging onto the Xantia for grim death as a second car now that I know I can fix it and the gearbox didn't die, even though I still need to get the A/C compressor replaced after I fix the gearbox switch. I plan to hang onto it until either it suffers a catastrophic failure or LEV zones force it off the road...

I'd say in your situation second hand EV's are not ready yet - check back in about 4 years and I think you'll find something second hand that will meet your needs at an acceptable price. Once you switch it's hard to go back, so best to wait until you can switch without too many compromises... I'm now in the situation where I'm hooked but the prices of the really long range stuff is far too high so I need an intermediate stepping stone to get me by the next 4 years or so until longer range stuff comes down in price.
Ideally I would bike to Carluke, then get the train to Cambuslang and then bike from there, but that would be 2+ hours each way, which might not go down that well at home :rofl2:
:rofl2:

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Public Transport

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Ireland makes Electrek News! Ireland buys 600 more hybrid buses. Why not opt for fully electric?

. And the supplier.....Alexander Dennis and the powertrains BAE Systems

So the Buses are Enviro400ER and can run for up to three miles in electric mode, with the exact distance depending on factors such as travel time and route profile..

The "ER" bit is the middle of the BAE Systems of electric-ness from the E, to the ER, to the EV which is the 100% Electric one. Apparently upgrading along that path is purposely facilitated, should it be necessary. Looks like Ireland has plumped for the middle option because guess what, the Enviro400ER does not need a charging infrastructure, or down time to charge because......absolute magic....it runs on 2 types of energy....diesel and diesel.
The Series-E system
The Series-E system is transit's cost-effective green solution providing engine-off technology with a lower total cost of ownership. With our smart Series-E drivetrain technology in your buses, all of your bus accessories – air conditioning, power steering, air compressors, etc. – can be powered by our electric system, and our stop/start function can be used to decrease engine idling at stops. Furthermore, the combustion engine that keeps the batteries charged can be shut-off for short distances – in and around a bus depot or hotel stop, for example – to eliminate emissions and reduce noise.

Series-E's uses our ESS-3G-1K energy storage system which uses long-life ultra capacitor technology. With more than 500 ESS-3G-1K systems in service and a minimum 12-year life Series-E is an excellent towards battery electric solutions. All of our system components are common and a low emission vehicle today can be upgraded to a full zero emission battery electric solution when ready.
The Series ER System
For more "engine-off" electric bus time, you want the Series-ER. Its higher capacity energy storage system, ESS-3G-32K allows drivers to operate the bus up to 35% of the time with the engine off, increasing low and zero emission travel options. Recently, San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA) set up zero-emission zones or green zones using Series-ER paired with geofencing technology. The green zones — nine in total — are located in population-dense neighborhoods most affected by air pollution. Each of the zones have a large presence of traffic that is contributing to a high rate of air pollution. Another advantage is that Series-ER can also be implemented without high infrastructure costs. This system has an onboard generator, so San Francisco– and your city – can operate electric drive buses without needing to install charging infrastructure and without scheduling times for buses to stop and recharge. With Series-ER installed, once the bus drives out of the geofenced area, it will automatically switch back into electric-hybrid mode.

Series-ER is transit's low-risk path to full battery electric drive. Using common components operators can transition from Series-ER: electric range solution to our highly-efficient Series-EV: battery electric system
Regards Neil