Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25811
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 4996

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by myglaren »

Recharge Industries: Britishvolt buyer failed to pay UK staff for months
An Australian firm which bought the collapsed battery maker Britishvolt has failed to pay its UK staff for the last four months, the BBC has learned.

Recharge Industries took control of Britishvolt after it went into administration in January.

The takeover has not gone smoothly, with some £2.5m of the purchase price still unpaid months after it was due.

However, sources within Recharge Industries insist a deal with a new investor is imminent.

Britishvolt was a start-up with big ambitions. It wanted to build a £4bn "gigafactory" to supply battery packs for a new generation of electric cars.

The plant was to have been built on the site of an old power station near Blyth in Northumberland.
BBC.
User avatar
Sloppysod
Donor 2024
Posts: 1053
Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
x 239

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Sloppysod »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 30 Oct 2023, 12:01 .......... . The life of these too makes them worthless with the cost of replacement batteries after 8-10 years. It all needs an overhaul and reality check.
From what I understand 8-10 years is the warranty that manufacturers give not the battery life. I bet that the 8 years was stated so they don't have any, or very few, claims.

The Citroën warranty is 70% of useable capacity after the 8 years 100,000 miles. Google search "citroen ev battery warranty". The battery can then have a 2nd life attached to someones house.

Ice vehicles at 100,000, would probably need a cambelt and had a couple of clutches. Without the oil & filter changes every 2 years before that.

You buy an ICE vehicle and you get what 60,000 mile (or three years max) warranty on the drivetrain. Google search "citroen engine warranty"
myglaren wrote: 30 Oct 2023, 10:45

Why can't the rest of them talk like this?
He's not completely right, I think Gridserve do have a bank of batteries connected to the chargers to supply a number of cars at thier full charge rate at once.
Stu 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 25373
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 6973

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Even the first generation of lithium ion batteries as in the pioneering leaf and Zoe are quite happily powering those vehicles over 100,000 miles and many more than that. My own Leaf from 2015 has a second generation more efficient battery chemistry, and a heat pump. 40,000 plus miles and 4 Years in our ownership, 70,000 miles in total, and 11 out of the original 12 bars of battery capacity remaining.

Unsurprisingly in the subsequent 13 or so years since the Leaf was first launched, batteries have developed both in energy density and efficiency of battery management systems to give greater range and longevity. Chargers have gone from slow to rapid to fast to superfast...yes and probably mega-fast on the way, all with increasingly greater power to shave those ever so apparently important minutes of charging up times on the road. Hand in hand goes the building into car manufacture of the necessary on-board charging capacity to be able to charge at these higher power chargers, and appropriate battery management and thermal management.

Personally I equate this quest for faster and faster recharge times rightly or wrongly with additional complication and stress on the battery and its management systems. Maybe they have cracked the more rapid charging equals lower longevity perception of earlier generation Li-ion Battery Chemistry. The dominant battery now is the no cobalt Li-FePO4, Lithium Iron Phosphate battery with longer cycle life.

I subject my own Leaf to a very gentle charging regime. Charging at home when parked up and unused from a dedicated outdoor 13 A Socket at a very gentle 3kW. On the road charging is infrequent and mostly when straying over the border, where chargers are available in all of the border towns. The infrastructure around here is pretty good never ran out of electricity once so far.

Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5888
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 3010

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by bobins »

Shirley it pays to charge the cars quicker at a public charging station in order to build fewer charging points ? The quicker the car in front gets charged and gets out of the way, the quicker the next person can plug into the electrons. Not a problem at charging stations that never ever get busy, but a benefit at stations that might have people queuing.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25811
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 4996

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by myglaren »

As Neil said, fast charging may be detrimental to the battery life.
And don't call me Shirley!
User avatar
Sloppysod
Donor 2024
Posts: 1053
Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
x 239

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Sloppysod »

I understand, It's not the fast charging that does he battery harm, it's the temperature curve they are subjected to when charging.
Stu 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 25373
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 6973

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Sloppysod wrote: 06 Nov 2023, 17:15 I understand, It's not the fast charging that does he battery harm, it's the temperature curve they are subjected to when charging.
You are right Stu. The Nissan leaf which I have doesn't have the more sophisticated battery management and thermal management of the current crop of cars, in fact it has no thermal management at all, and charging and discharging is done at ambient temperature rather than the ideal temperature for the process. Up to my version of the Leaf there was a long life mode which you could select which stopped charging at 80% rather then charging up to 100% which was again considered detrimental to longevity at the time.

There is a battery temp indicator on the Leaf dashboard which I have never seen creep over half-way, plug it into a 50kW charger and the indicator jumps up maybe 1 bar at the end of the process.

So how does a battery management/thermal management system manage the temperature of cells and either heat them up or cool them to maintain an ideal charging temperature. As well as the usual hardware/software and sensors, a plumbing matrix within the battery pack. Starts getting complicated...and maybe creates failure points, Wonder what stuff runs through the plumbing, Tesla uses G-48 ethylene-glycol coolant (HOAT) according to this.
Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
Sloppysod
Donor 2024
Posts: 1053
Joined: 23 May 2015, 23:35
x 239

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Sloppysod »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: 06 Nov 2023, 19:38 ......... Up to my version of the Leaf there was a long life mode which you could select which stopped charging at 80% rather then charging up to 100% which was again considered detrimental to longevity at the time.
...

Neil
Yes my phone has long life option, only charge to 85%, still seeing if it works, very rarely use my phones fast charger.
Stu 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 25373
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 6973

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

A surprise discovery, but these will become an increasingly common and obvious sight.

It is in the surprisingly pioneering Scottish Borders, not the first place I would expect such a development.
The more they look like a "normal" filling station, the better, and the beacon signage at night obvious, and lighting akin to the comforting glow of the regular petrol/diesel station.

Not very good pictures...all 150kW Chargers simple to use via contactless/RFID card or app.
DSC05611.JPG
Clear eye-catching roadside signage<br />Fuzzy picture doesn't do it justice!
Clear eye-catching roadside signage
Fuzzy picture doesn't do it justice!
DSC05613.JPG
Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 07 Dec 2023, 10:57, edited 1 time in total.
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 50151
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6397

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by CitroJim »

150Kw :shock: That's very serious power... Or is that a typo? Surely it must be...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Gibbo2286
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 7378
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 2584

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Charging will be much easier when all chargers have 'contactless' as payment option.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 25373
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 6973

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

CitroJim wrote: 07 Dec 2023, 05:56 150Kw :shock: That's very serious power...
It's on the tarmac on all 7 bays Jim :-D

Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 25373
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 6973

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The rapid charging station is a development by the Motor Fuel Group (MFG)
https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/ev-power/
Our EV Strategy
MFG’s dual-fuel strategy involves proactively developing its infrastructure in anticipation of the growing demand for electric vehicles (EVs), complementing its existing fuel and retail business to facilitate a seamless transition to a cleaner environment. The £400 million investment in EVs is entirely self-funded, derived from the cash generated by the existing business.

As of 2023, MFG has successfully installed over 550 ultra-rapid chargers, ranging from 150 kW to 300 kW, across more than 130 sites—the highest number in the independent forecourt sector. Leveraging our ultra-rapid 150 kW and 300 kW chargers, a vehicle capable of such charging speeds can add 100 miles of range in approximately 10 minutes.

In our commitment to ensuring an effortless, secure, and dependable charging experience for drivers, MFG provides multiple chargers on our EV charging hubs.
Image
Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 50151
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6397

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by CitroJim »

300Kw :shock: I'm even more shocked... And no pun intended...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
bobins
Donor 2023
Posts: 5888
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 3010

Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by bobins »

Yep, they're ideally suited towards the fleet car / company car driver who cares not one jot about their car battery health. On the second hand market these cars will probably be the ICE equivalent of a car that's been driven regularly on the red line from cold.
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(