Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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Thought I would throw this one in. I don't agree with the figures of the "fag packet"nomics, however they are in the correct vein and fleet managers are totally going to have to rethink fleet balance and turnover with these types of vehicles. Purpose built, long term commercial EVs is the only practical way forward. The current hodge podge of ICE "converted" vans isn't the way forward IMO. The "costs" are based on "available" information but won't reflect the contract prices for Fleet Operators as these are not usually disclosed to the Public.
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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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I think the biggest Elephant in the EV market is the level of Insurance Economic Write Offs. That information is not available fully yet but, going by the way that ICE vehicles are Written Off, I expect a lot of EVs being written off "Economically" as well as an increase in the Rejections of Repaired EVs as undiscovered faults show up as Body Shops can't fully test EVs before returning them. We are just at the start of that journey.
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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As any well seasoned traveller will know the beginning of any journey is the best time to choose the right path!! :)
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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Or the best intended path
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Ross_K
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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CitroJim wrote: 03 Jan 2023, 15:52 A 'lekky car would be perfect for me but can't justify one on sheer cost grounds... The current cost of even a small basic one would provide sufficient funds to keep my Saxo going for years...

What I'm waiting for is for EVs to fall into the banger category so I can buy one or two cheaply and learn how they work and how to restore them to useful life again...

I don't believe I'll have to wait a long time ;)
I wrote a reply earlier to this effect, but the page refreshed and I lost it :lol:

I'm in the same boat as you. The problems are:
1. I couldn't justify the cost of a new EV
2. With a used EV, you'll always have the thought of an expensive battery replacement lurking in the back of your mind. Even if you have a really good warranty, batteries are generally considered to be consumables...so you'd need to check the small print. Or wait until they're banger money. Speaking of which I looked at a few "cheap" Leafs over the holidays but they all needed the traction battery replacing (One had a 25-mile range when fully charged :shock: )
3. Speaking of range, I couldn't see myself sitting in a motorway services for an hour here and there to charge the car during a long journey. I don't have the patience. :rofl2:
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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You "Couldn't afford it" guys will I'm sure come around to being able to when the used car market gets filled up a bit more with used EVs.
Although I've been in the trade all my working life I've never bought a new car for myself, never wanted to cough up that first chunk of depreciation.
The little Renault Zoe cost me £3,200 in a bankruptcy auction so they are starting to filter through to the used car market.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. (Albert Einstein)
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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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Unfortunately someone has to buy a new car for there to be a secondhand market - hence the crazy price hikes for used cars last year in the "new Car" starved market. All levels of the market have to exist.
EVs will perform no differently in the Electric Car market, however that pans out.
I can't afford or justify a suitable EV for my motoring needs and I am not going to take chances in a market I don't know a lot about. I am not alone in that. I will wait and see.
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Ross_K
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Ross_K »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/evs-batter ... 1671232024

"The Key to Widespread Adoption of EVs: Less Range"
Imagine two vehicles on a road trip between Orlando and Washington, D.C., a distance of about 860 miles. One vehicle has 300 miles of range and can fully recharge in about an hour, which is typical of how long it takes many of today’s faster-charging EVs to refill at a charging station. Another vehicle has a battery only half as big, with 150 miles of range, but can recharge fully in 15 minutes. Even adding in all the extra time required to get on and off the highway for more frequent stops, the vehicle with half as much range but four times the charging speed beats its much heavier and more expensive cousin by about 20 minutes.
Interesting idea.

Which would you prefer?
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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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I have just looked to find out which EV cars would meet my current expectations. There aren't many and they range from £95000 to over £150000 new. Even secondhand they come in at more than I bought my house for.
I am probably being a curmudgeon here, however, I am not persuaded of the value in "green" EVs that are anything but "green" or the hype that they are the next "best thing". However, they are here and I will live with that. I just can't see how personal transport can be universally electric.
I guess that people will make their own minds up on that one.
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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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Ross_K wrote: 04 Jan 2023, 12:43 https://www.wsj.com/articles/evs-batter ... 1671232024

"The Key to Widespread Adoption of EVs: Less Range"
Imagine two vehicles on a road trip between Orlando and Washington, D.C., a distance of about 860 miles. One vehicle has 300 miles of range and can fully recharge in about an hour, which is typical of how long it takes many of today’s faster-charging EVs to refill at a charging station. Another vehicle has a battery only half as big, with 150 miles of range, but can recharge fully in 15 minutes. Even adding in all the extra time required to get on and off the highway for more frequent stops, the vehicle with half as much range but four times the charging speed beats its much heavier and more expensive cousin by about 20 minutes.
Interesting idea.

Which would you prefer?
But you still have to stop and hope you can get charged. Therein lies the anxiety stress point that is real for many, many People. That turns a journey into a nightmare for a lot more people than you think, including the passengers, many of which are already anxious about car travel. More stops, more anxiety. Recharging EVs is a nightmare for a whole bunch of different people - not just the driver. Many stops are dingy, miserable spots for people lacking any kind of welcoming, reassuring atmosphere. Not exactly a spot you would want a lone woman or kids to be stranded at if you are waiting for the people at their journey's end. It is not just the people in the car who worry and adding more stops to journey adds more worries - because we often fear the worst. Human nature for some of us.
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Ross_K
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Ross_K »

More stops, more anxiety.
Indeed. As much as I dislike diesel, at least I can fill the C5 and drive 600-700 miles without thinking about it
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Gibbo2286
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Ross_K wrote: 04 Jan 2023, 13:14
More stops, more anxiety.
Indeed. As much as I dislike diesel, at least I can fill the C5 and drive 600-700 miles without thinking about it
Nobody's going to nick my catalytic converter though :-D
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CitroJim
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 04 Jan 2023, 14:00 Nobody's going to nick my catalytic converter though :-D
I'd love to see someone try to nick the catalytic converter off my AX ;) :lol:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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mickthemaverick
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by mickthemaverick »

CitroJim wrote: 04 Jan 2023, 14:47
Gibbo2286 wrote: 04 Jan 2023, 14:00 Nobody's going to nick my catalytic converter though :-D
I'd love to see someone try to nick the catalytic converter off my AX ;) :lol:
Or my MX3!! :-D
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Dormouse
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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I have just watched a YouTube short about a guy planning to cross the Texas Panhandle (a sparse area in North Texas about 160 miles by 160 miles). He was planning to charge 3 times for that journey. His car could do it on one full charge and he talked enthusiastically about running an EV yet he was planning stops to ensure he could maintain a decent level of charge just in case.