Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Recharging on the road, and possibly even at home was always likely catch up in terms of both taxation and price. It isn't there yet. Plenty home tariffs from the energy suppliers of 5p/6p per kWh for overnight recharging at home.
I always knew the freebie enjoyed in Northumberland for several years at their 20 odd rapid chargers would come to an end. For most EV owners living in towns or closer to towns, on the road charging would be an exception with most charging done at home, and currently still able to enjoy low tariffs.

The only way fossil fuel prices are going to go is up, and the only way depreciation of new ICE cars bought in 2021 is going is up.

Regardless of anyone's views on climate change, it is extremely unlikely that governments around the world and Europe in particular are going to reverse ambitions to eliminate fossil fuels from transport, domestic homes, and industry. The signals by governments and perhaps more importantly the prospects of returns for investors, mean that any new investment in the fossil fuel business is toxic literally and financially, and existing shareholders exert considerable pressure for old oil to turn into new energy companies.

I've never bought new but even today the seemingly large difference between windscreen sticker prices of an EV and a ICE equivalent is not much difference on a PCP deal over 3 years, and that difference is easily made up by current charging at home prices...(down to 5p/kWh on tariffs from many of the energy suppliers for charging between 12.00 and 4.30am) and zero tax.

Car deals change all the time, and incentives like manufacturers deposit contributions if you catch the deal can significantly reduce costs. Residual values assumed in the finance deals are falling for ICE cars, and rising for secondhand EV's which are expected to have a very healthy market in 3 years time.

Virtually none of the automotive industry big players have plans to continue churning out ICE Cars to supply the European Market, and it is organically likely to happen in advance of the "bans" on new sales.

I don't think Electric vehicles will bring cheaper motoring, although really they should, simpler to build, less components, reduced maintenance. The manufactures don't want to sell you a simple car though.....they want to sell you billions of lines of software and infotainment as well as a battery, motor and wheels. Even TESLA's much trailed $25,000 Model 2 is planned to have Full Self Driving capability.

REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by mickthemaverick »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
14 Aug 2021, 10:47

I don't think Electric vehicles will bring cheaper motoring, although really they should, simpler to build, less components, reduced maintenance. The manufactures don't want to sell you a simple car though.....they want to sell you billions of lines of software and infotainment as well as a battery, motor and wheels. Even TESLA's much trailed $25,000 Model 2 is planned to have Full Self Driving capability.

REgards Neil
Well put Neil, I feel that is the trouble with the world we live in now. Gone are the days when things were manufactured simply to do a job, now everything has to be aesthetically pleasing, in fashion, full of extras that are only there because a) they can be and b) they offer manufacturers opportunities for ongoing sales either in the form of upgrades to even more unnecessary features or simply upgrades to keep the existing features in line with the changing environment eg map upgrades to cover newly built roads etc.

A classic example happened at my friend's house in Elstree yesterday, I popped into the kitchen to see the lady of the house who had music playing on her kitchen speaker. As I walked in she turned and said " turn off the music Alexa" or something very similar. Nothing happened so she repeated herself, still nothing. On the third attempt she raised her voice at the machine to the level of that used to admonish a child who has just spilt their cola all over the living room carpet. Still nothing, I walked past her over to the dreadful machine and pressed the off switch!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by myglaren »

mickthemaverick wrote:
14 Aug 2021, 11:35

Well put Neil, I feel that is the trouble with the world we live in now. Gone are the days when things were manufactured simply to do a job, now everything has to be aesthetically pleasing, in fashion, full of extras that are only there because a) they can be and b) they offer manufacturers opportunities for ongoing sales either in the form of upgrades to even more unnecessary features or simply upgrades to keep the existing features in line with the changing environment eg map upgrades to cover newly built roads etc.

A classic example happened at my friend's house in Elstree yesterday, I popped into the kitchen to see the lady of the house who had music playing on her kitchen speaker. As I walked in she turned and said " turn off the music Alexa" or something very similar. Nothing happened so she repeated herself, still nothing. On the third attempt she raised her voice at the machine to the level of that used to admonish a child who has just spilt their cola all over the living room carpet. Still nothing, I walked past her over to the dreadful machine and pressed the off switch!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:
I struggle with the aesthetically pleasing part. Almost all new cars look atrociously ugly with huge amounts of unnecessary twirly bits all over the place.
I hate to say it but my Civic suffers from this too.

The Alexa thing amused me. My son would never say "Alexa; Stop"! to it to shut it up, but would unplug it as he "Refused to talk to that thing".

It is buggered now anyway.
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Agree with the aesthetically pleasing comment, they seem to have completely forgotten style, most are ugly..........big and ugly.
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

A pod point first today. No smart phone, no app just phoned the number on Clay-Matt (all their chargers have names) and the helpful chap just started a charge....free vend from a 7kW charger. I do have an account with pod-point I kicked off with £10, but seeing as it was a free-vend the chap never asked me for any details.
Cheers Pod-Point for the free juice!
Cheers Pod-Point for the free juice!
REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
25 May 2021, 23:48
Not entirely unexpected but HMRC have just clarified that electricity sold at EV public chargers is to be taxed at the full 20% VAT rate ...

As a result Instavolt have raised their tariff from 35p/kWh to 40p, further widening the charging price gap between charging at home and public charging.
I had forgotten about that until today when we chose to stop off at the Instavolt charger and up pops 40/kWh.

Too much, last resort charging at Instavolt from now on. Plugged in for a top up regardless seeing as it was vacant and the 4p/kwh cheaper one further down the road may have been occupied.

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Who's Next?
Who's Next?
temp2.png (142.83 KiB) Viewed 629 times
When this leccy thing was in its infancy fighting against early adoption with lack of infrastructure, which remains a little bit of a myth, who where and what would the infrastructure in future years look like :?: Maybe the supermarkets/ out of town shopping centres would have have a few charging points. Maybe there would be the odd one or two at hotels for their guests, at car parks, and at your place of work. Maybe they would appear round the back of petrol stations and at motorway services. Maybe even in the future there would be electric-only filling stations in as many locations as petrol stations.

Of course those cables supplied with the pioneer electric cars with the three pin plug on (still around now) would be there to utilise the "filling station at home", available to millions of potential electric car owners, and these could develop into having more rapid chargers through special charging points at home.

Well all those things have happened, bit of public sector encouragement from Government and local authorities initially, and now a raft of players in the market and keen to swallow up the competition, from the former "big oil" energy companies like BP and Shell, to huge multinational existing energy companies, the big supermarkets, and automobile makers either directly or in partnership progressing the network of chargers.

Finally to the original question "Who's Next :?:

I never envisaged thus particular sector would "get involved".

https://www.electrive.com/2021/08/13/na ... s-by-2023/

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by myglaren »

Image

Shouldn't there be a helicopter rescuing refugees from there?
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_119959382_gettyimages-515347222.jpg
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Haven't been up to Scotland since Chargeplace Scotland changed their back office provider managing the network to SWARCO. Several problems and a large thread on SpeakEV testified to some teething problems. Needed to find out whether this still worked.
temp2.png
The borders is particularly well served with mostly free vend chargers with the Chargeplace Scotland card and the BP Pulse card we also subscribe to so excellent day out territory for the bargain basement electric owner.

Plenty alternatives if one of the charge points is out of order, or not vacant. Topped up at Galashiels behind the bus station, card worked fine, but alternatives if back up required at Melrose, Tweedbank, Selkirk, Newton St Boswells, Earlston, Lauder, Jedburgh etc etc.

REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

One of the great selling points for Tesla is their Supercharger and destination charger network. Tesla owners particularly in the UK have no waiting in line to access chargers, and they can freely access chargers outside the Tesla network. It hasn't worked the other way in that the Tesla network is specifically reserved for Tesla users only...but that is about to change.

From Elon musk
We are thinking about a real simple thing where you just download the Tesla app, you go to the Supercharger, you just indicate which stall you are in, you plug in your car, even if it’s not a Tesla, and you just access the app to tell “turn on the stall that I’m in for how much electricity,” and this should work for almost any manufacturer’s electric car.

Some Tesla owners may whinge at their exclusive club being invaded by the riffraff, and whinge that they only bought a Tesla because of their USP of the Supercharger network coming along with it, and what happens if all the stalls are full with Nissan leafs.....call the police :?: :-D

Looks like its going to be a thing, and a revenue stream for the TESLA network as yet untapped.
Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

DSC00443.JPG
Free drink at one of the many hospital sites with public chargers run by Hubsta today. RFID tag didnt work but 24/7 support were able to start a charge off by phoning the contact number.

Most of charging networks assume everyone has a smart phone, and working round this to be able to use the chargers can be a bit of a faff. Managed to crack Pod-Point and today Hubsta. Hubsta are very good pleasant and helpful. I'm probably biased in their favour though seeing as they are based at Villa Real...Consett Co Durham.

REgards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

As referred to by Gibbo here https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 94#p695394

Late in the day, and for COP 26 more than for anything else, the design of a new British Icon. The British Chargepoint.
"Excellent design plays a key role in supporting our transition to zero emission vehicles, which is why I want to see EV chargepoints that are as iconic and recognisable as the British phone box, London bus or black cab."

Grant Shapps Transport Secretary HM Government.
Anyone care to supply a design on the back of a fag packet :?:

REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 26 Aug 2021, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Gibbo2286 »

They could have saves a bob or two by using/adapting the redundant phone boxes. :)
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Don't worry about charging point infrastructure, a "transitioning oil producer" is on the job :-D .

Shell to finance Ubitricity charge points in the UK
Shell is to install 50,000 Ubitricity charging points in the UK by 2025. The transitioning oil producer acquired the Berlin-based charging infrastructure specialist Ubitricity earlier this year. Shell says it will assume part of the costs for the new charging points
Lets hope at least some of them are to have the "Great British Charging Point Iconic Design" to be presented at COP26 :-D

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

It would be nice to see "the iconic British Charger" and obvious EV Multi Charging stations, and a network of them, to help convince the general public that there is no problem getting your electric car charged. In my experience there isn't a great problem. Yes chargers will be out of order, and you have to assume this, and have alternatives, and enough range to use the alternatives. Never a good idea to arrive at an en route charger with 2 miles range, and then find out its not working.

I've posted pictures on this thread of scenic chargers, but todays is perhaps going to be a disappearing category. Off the main A68 at the bypassed Newton St Boswells down a side street round the back of an old school in the corner of the former playground.

Does have a view of the Eildon Hills in the background, but visible/obvious and the great British iconic design it is not.
Free leccy with a Chargeplace Scotland card it is!
Free leccy with a Chargeplace Scotland card it is!
Regards Neil