Bargain Basement Electric

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myglaren
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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by myglaren »

I'm sure it makes sense to someone.
It would likely make more sense to make them here for the UK market than to import them, after tomorrow.

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The 12V battery on my "bargain basement" leaf is now getting on for 4.5 years old so put the multimeter on it.
12.05V after standing overnight (edit update 12.20V after a 7kW charge, and 12.29V after a run out today). I would have thought that's a bit low on an ICE so maybe time for a replacement. Watched this little vid about EV 12V batteries. That one was only showing 5-6V :-D



Regards Neil

PS and just for my own personal reference I'll dump these here...
19 page thread on Nissan Leaf 12V battery

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
05 Jan 2020, 11:34
I just had a thought Neil, if you were a bad boy could you unplug the car already on charge and push it out of the way to get yours on? :)
Well I did my first bit of deliberate unplugging of a EV Charger hogger today.

Arrived at the charger to find the single chademo charger was in use by another Leaf. From the lack of any of the three blue lights on the top of the dash, and the information on the charger, the car was fully charged and the session had ended.

Thought we would wait a little while to see if the person returned to their car. After 25 minutes enough was enough so carefully I removed the chademo plug, had I felt the slightest resistance from an in car lock I would have left it where it was.

Plugged it into mine, charged mine up to 80% and left the scene and the charger hogger had not even returned by that time.

REgards Neil

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myglaren
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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by myglaren »

Inconsiderate electromotorists too. Sure it wasn't an Audi?

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

It definitely wasnt Audi's token BEV effort the E-tron.......now surprisingly the urban dictionary describes Tron as
A verb. To "tron" someone is to rush past said person who is walking to get ahead of them, usually in a line or queue; popularized in both Tron movies as the Light Cycles.
Maybe Audi did indeed consult the urban dictionary for the name of their flagship EV :-D

REgards Neil

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
06 Feb 2020, 23:49
Well I did my first bit of deliberate unplugging of a EV Charger hogger today.

Arrived at the charger to find the single chademo charger was in use by another Leaf. From the lack of any of the three blue lights on the top of the dash, and the information on the charger, the car was fully charged and the session had ended.

Thought we would wait a little while to see if the person returned to their car. After 25 minutes enough was enough so carefully I removed the chademo plug, had I felt the slightest resistance from an in car lock I would have left it where it was.
Chademo always unlocks when the charge session is over as the locking pin is in the plug belonging to the charger and under the chargers control. So as long as the session is finished you'll always be able to unplug someone else's Chademo connection.

Not necessarily the case with CCS where it's up to the car to voluntarily let go of the plug, making the behaviour at the end of charging car specific. And on many chargers you may not be able to start a Chademo session if a CCS car is still plugged in even if its finished.

Given that there are two side by side parking spaces per rapid charger in most cases even if the charger can only charge one car at once, if I had accidentally let my car charge to completion and hadn't got back to it unplug it, I wouldn't mind if someone else had taken it as long as they closed my charge flap.

I assume you closed their charge flap neatly ? :lol:
Plugged it into mine, charged mine up to 80% and left the scene and the charger hogger had not even returned by that time.
That could have been an uncomfortable conversation, glad they didn't come back in time. :twisted: Some EV drivers (especially the tech savvy early adopters) would be perfectly OK with being unplugged after their car was finished, (as they know how it feels to wait for someone else to get off the charger) but some people would no doubt take huge offence at anyone touching their car in any way.

I'm certainly wary of unplugging anyone else for that reason as you don't know how they're going to react. Their reaction could range anywhere from apologetic to rage at you daring to touch their car... Luckily I have never had to do so yet, I did come very close to having to once, (family in the car, needed charge to get home, no alternative charger in range etc) fortunately the owner of the fully charged car arrived a few minutes after I did so I didn't have to take the chance. :lol:

As EV's become more popular and there are not just early adopters driving them, expect some "charger rage" over situations like this, unless the infrastructure keeps up adequately!

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
07 Feb 2020, 09:57
I assume you closed their charge flap neatly ? :lol:
For a moment after I had finished I thought about putting the plug back into the socket and leaving the scene in exactly the same state as I arrived, but thought better of it, neatly closed "connector protector " flap, and the charging door flap, inevitably deposited a bit of DNA, and sped off at 3mph!

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 07 Feb 2020, 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
31 Jan 2020, 10:37
The 12V battery on my "bargain basement" leaf is now getting on for 4.5 years old so put the multimeter on it.
12.05V after standing overnight (edit update 12.20V after a 7kW charge, and 12.29V after a run out today). I would have thought that's a bit low on an ICE so maybe time for a replacement. Watched this little vid about EV 12V batteries. That one was only showing 5-6V :-D
One of the design flaws of the Leaf is that they're known to not look after the 12v battery very well, resulting in either the battery going flat unexpectedly preventing the car from starting, or having to replace the 12v battery prematurely. Loads of discussion about this on Speakev.com.

Nobody is entirely sure what the reason is, and Nissan of course denies any problem but it does have a very different battery management approach than say my Ion. My Ion follows a charging strategy similar to an ICE.

In short when the car is "on" and ready to drive, or when the car is plugged in and actively charging the traction battery, it will charge the 12v battery from the traction battery, and will maintain it at exactly 14.4 volts +/- 0.2v depending on ambient temperature. (Since Lead Acid optimal charge voltage varies with temperature) This is pretty much exactly what an ICE vehicle does when the engine is running.

The Leaf does not maintain a constant 14.4 volts when the car is on or charging, instead it charges the 12v battery when the car charges at the wall and then lets the 12v electronics on the car run directly from the 12v battery while driving, only topping it up from the traction battery when it falls below a certain voltage. This will cause a lot more cycling and a deeper discharge of the battery. Also it only seems to maintain it at about 13.8 volts when it is on but not actively charging the battery. 13.8v is only enough to maintain the status quo with lead acid, not charge it.

Because the battery voltage very rarely reaches 14.4 volts it allows the plates to sulphate over time. Some people have taken to giving the 12v battery on their Leaf a charge on an intelligent battery charger once a month to ensure that it gets a full saturation charge to keep it healthier. Annoying that this might be necessary but it's either that or put up with early battery replacements or grumble to Nissan who will not acknowledge an issue.

Interestingly early Tesla Model S had a similar strategy of not keeping the 12v battery constantly topped up to 14.4 volts when the car is driving, allowing it to approximately 50% discharge before topping it up again - and they had a lot of premature 12v battery failures, sometimes as soon as 2 years, probably because regular Lead Acid batteries don't like being deeply cycled. Later versions of the Model S addressed this problem both by swapping to a deep cycle 12v battery and also modifying the charging protocol to not allow it to deeply discharge on a regular basis.

If I bought a Leaf I would certainly be keeping an eye on the 12v battery and would probably give it a once a month nightly connection to my charger.

12.05v after standing over night is certainly low - after it has sat for many hours with no load 12.6 volts would be a full charge, 11.6 volts would be fully discharged with an approximately linear relationship in between, so your battery is only at about 50% charge after standing overnight. Usually on my Ion I see 12.6 volts after it has sat over night.

You need to be careful with how you measure it though, if you open a door first before taking a measurement it will wake up a lot of systems in the car putting a load on the battery and give a false reading, as a charge estimation voltage reading must be taken with no load. When I checked my battery over night I left the bonnet popped so I could get a volt meter directly onto the battery terminals without opening or waking up the car.

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Thanks Simon

I see lidl from James' usual update on the forum have their battery charger available on Thursday next week.

https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/p/car-essenti ... ger/p29573.

The battery currently on is branded Renault/Nissan 12V-L1 50/ a/h 420A C EN so it will be the original. The car was REg September 2015, but embossed on the battery is a 160914 set of numbers so the battery may be 1 year older than the car :-D

Probably does need replacing, but I will give it a charge to perk it up.

This looks to be the right spec for a replacement
https://batteryfactory.co.uk/products/y ... gJkP_D_BwE

REgards Neil

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by bobins »

Perhaps there should be a push by EV users to put a sticker in their windows along the lines of "Feel free to unplug me if you can once I've finished charging". Or, perhaps the alternative : "You touch my car, then I'm calling the lawyers !" :lol:

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

New charging point visit today......not the most scenic Lauder, Scottish Borders just past the co-op up the industrial estate road.

4,000 electric miles now on the Bargain Basement Leaf....
.
Running my Micra I would have had to buy 400 litres of Petrol to do that milage at total of £500 ish.
Spent £20 on Rapid chargers on one trip to Yorkshire and so far the rest had been free.
nf own work
nf own work
REgards Neil

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by mickthemaverick »

You have definitely proved its a bargain if you live in your part of the world Neil!! Sadly I have not found a single working free charger within 10 miles of my house so I cannot make it work down here ....yet!!! :)

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Bit out of practice for the snow art, but probably the first electric car in the world to join the snow art club
Snow Leaf
Snow Leaf
Regards Neil

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

One of the finest products from the middle of Lidl
My lidl polar bear
My lidl polar bear
REgards Neil

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Re: Bargain Basement Electric

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Now when you see a sky like this in northumberland....
nf own work
nf own work
expect this
hailstones
hailstones
regards Neil