405: Major Works

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

It is Chris, its a bit what I'd call 'prissy' and out of keeping with the car actually, not to mention me; posh I definitely don't do !

Its big advantages however were:-
It was readily available at reasonable cost (£23)...albeit at the time of purchase I hadn't reckoned on the Hose effectively doubling its cost
It has fittings of a suitable size to accept the 10mm ID feed from the Bypass

Its actually a Screw Cap, the 'screw' being cut into the metal itself;,which isn't ideal; but I'm thinking that by having an 'Overflow' which will exit in the NS Wheelarch (not that I'd hope it'll ever really be required for fluid), that I'll avoid excessive pressure anywhere.

If you've any thoughts like that's not going to work, do say so while I have the opportunity to return it and its in un-marked condition; I don't think I've even got any oily paw-prints on it yet!

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by doctle »

I too was expecting a different header tank plastic for sure

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white exec
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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by white exec »

It is essential that the expansion tank incorporates the pressure-relief cap.

The idea is that excess coolant, and any trapped air, route their way to the expansion tank, and are able to "vent" (overflow) from there. There should only be one air pocket in the system: above the coolant level in the expansion tank.

You might have to return it, as I can't think of a way to easily incorporate a pressure cap there.

Lots of these about, which work well and take a standard pressure cap:
https://picclick.co.uk/Classic-Rover-Mi ... 88264.html

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by RichardW »

I might have a spare NOS wax stat, I'll check....

I think you will need / get on a lot better with a levelling bar to lift the engine out - you will need to get it at a steep angle to get the box out from under the chassis rail, which is much easier with a levelling bar!

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

round & round in circles. I don't suppose that ARH 259 Expansion Tank is readily available in Spain at a sensible cost.... because unfortunately that's just not the case here in the UK.

Grotty used examples start at about £50, which is not a figure I can stomach and could be said to be 1/4 the value of the entire vehicle as many would take a look at the mega-mileage and various dents & scuffs and go 'not blooming likely'.

...though if I was ever to sell I'd probably start at an optimistic £500 ish, which is what I paid for it in 2011

See pics

Thanks for your help guys, but this Expansion Tank issue is now just giving me a headache.
Attachments
Rimmer Bros Expansion Tank.JPG
Mini Expansion Tank.JPG
MGB Expansion Tank.JPG
Expansion Tank.JPG
ARH 259.JPG
All Draw a Blank.JPG

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

RichardW wrote:
07 Nov 2019, 09:37
I might have a spare NOS wax stat...
...levelling bar
Thanks Richard, I'm a little confused about the offer of the Wax Stat, I guess this is another term for a Thermostat? I do have a couple of those.

As for the Levelling Bar, I've two options

1: a sturdy bit of a Angle Iron, some Fencing Eye Bolts and the chain you see in the pics
or
2: remove the Gearbox and pull it aside, then lift just the Engine.

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by RichardW »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
25 Oct 2019, 10:28

...to realise that the Cable for the Cold Start was badly frayed at the clamp, so its 'unusable' without changing the Cold Start thingy.
I certainly had one of those, but I may have got rid of it, I'll check.

I was thinking about a variable load leveller which allows you to adjust the angle of the dangle once it is on the hook https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cll500-load-leveller/ removing the gearbox is another option - I suppose once you are ready to pull the engine, then actually dropping the box out is not too much additional work.

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Ah, so that's what they're called ! Thanks ! I have already fitted the other Stat / Fuel Filter Assembly though, with the good Cable; so it'd just go into my spares stash if you're able to find it.

I see that the Clarke Load Leveller uses something akin to Eye Bolts which enhances my confidence in making something of that Ilk from a piece of Angle Iron and some Eye Bolts, possibly with a bit of weld on 'em to ensure they stay 'closed'.

Your comment inspired further thought Thank You and I've realised that separating the Gearbox in the course of having the lump out won't be difficult but...

.... getting it to mate up to the replacement engine could well be a PITA, as it indeed was when I did the Clutch 3 or 4 years back

....so it'd make sense to have one available.

This is partly what this Thread's about, thinking aloud and identifying problems before they occur, in particular while the car's useable.

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by white exec »

Found these...
ebay.uk item no. 392437112844 (2-litre)
ebay.uk item no. 392298204237 (1.5-litre)
Both seem to have a pressure relief cap.

No luck with the BL/Austin-Morris/MG vertical plastic jobbie. Seems to have become either scrap, or a deep-pocket MG thingy. Scrapyards used to be full of them!

Do check your metal one doesn't have a pressure-relief cap, though...

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

08a Header Tank 1 FCF.JPG
08b Header Tank 2 FCF.JPG
Thanks for those Item Numbers Chris; the rectangular one could potentially be made to fit, but I'm not quite sure how....

However, read on....

I think the Austin / Morris Expansion tank is one of those examples of spares 'coming of age', ie the market being such that the vehicles a part is associated with are considered worth investing in; have you noticed what original Mini's fetch these days?!

I guess if I keep the 405 long enough, it'll happen, probably initially due to some parts' association with the 205.

Sadly my Header Tank doesn't have a pressure relief, and even more sadly, in the course of my 'cracking on while the weather's with me', between making my previous post and reading your response; I've scratched it; not badly, but enough that it won't polish out, so I'm stuck with it.

I think that I'm ultimately going to have to shelve this 'Header Tank' idea entirely, except perhaps as a temporary measure for perhaps a week or so after having the cooling system apart; as I also note that there seems not to be a single Blanking Cap available online; and I realise that I don't actually understand one of the basic principles of a cooling system; ie why there has to be pressure in it in the first place

However, progress has been made, of sorts, with the removal of this, a slight re-direct of the Brake Servo Hose to come through the Bulkhead 'sooner' and a shortening of the Battery Shroud; so it is at least neater, and the space is available.
Air Con 02 Bulkhead Gubbins Removed.jpg
Air Con 07 Bulkhead Gubbins Removed.jpg
Air Con 10 Bulkhead Gubbins Removed.jpg
Cooling 45 Room for Header Tank Overview.jpg
Structure 02 Rust Trap Inner Wing.jpg
Structure 03 Rust Trap Inner Wing.jpg

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by white exec »

By having the cooling system operate under pressure (1.3 - 1.5bar is common) the boiling point of the water is raised from 100ºC to something around 130. This is necessary to allow the engine to work close to 100º (typically around 90), but allow some headroom when things get hot, without the risk of boiling and consequent coolant loss. When towing, or hill climbing in hot conditions, coolant temp can run at anything up to 120-125 without issue, with the fans doing their stuff.

The calibrated pressure cap makes this possible, and also provides pressure relief in case things get out of hand, or if the sysystem has been over-filled, and expanding coolant needs to escape.

Pressure caps also usually provide a means of relieving negative pressure, to prevent a partial vacuum in the system when things cool, to prevent hoses etc collapsing.
________

A blanking cap could be created by somehow making the spring in a normal pressure cap solid, so there is no longer any relief action. BUT, it's important to ensure there is pressure relief elsewhere in the system, i.e. on the expansion tank.

Just wondering whether you could somehow re-engineer the snout on your new tank to accept a standard pressure cap? Or ask the seller whether they could supply a screw-on pressure relief cap . . . I think such things do exist. A lot of work and faff, given all the other things on your list. At least no urgency.

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by white exec »

One more find, on Amazon.de (just order like a .uk a/c, same sign-in and everything):
https://www.amazon.de/AERZETIX-Ausdehnu ... ive&sr=1-4
Couldn't readily see it on Amazon.uk, but might be there.

This is the Peu 307 item; looks the same.
Has PSA-type pressure cap, as well as Low Coolant sensor facility.
Peu307 header tank.JPG
A maybe.

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Thanks for the info on the Pressure Cap Chris and pressure in the Cooling System, I'm 'as good as there' I think with regard to understanding how it works now....

Any thoughts by the way on whether I can simply 'delete' the small bore hose that runs from the rad to the joint at the back, alongside the main Hose that goes via the Water Pump?
FCF 1.jpg
If I was to do so, I'd have an easier way to plumb in....

my new BX TD / GTi Header Tank
FCF 3.jpg
from a most pleasant vendor (lovely to meet you if you're reading; am sure it won't be the last time), which will look a lot less out of place than that shiny alloy one.

The main feed hose is in quite poor condition (perished) and isn't really sensibly useable; so if anyone's got one, or has a stash of Coolant Hoses that might fit / be adapted, do shout. Else I might get lucky with a random vehicle at my local scrappies.

I've 'offered it up' and taken some measurements relating to bracketry and Tees / Connections into the existing cooling system; but I'm actually feeling a bit sick of Header Tanks at the moment, and I'm also thinking that I'm likely gonna need to break out the MIG with regard to the Bracketry and the Engine Spreader Bar; neither of which I feel like doing right now....

...so I'm cracking on with something else for the moment, still cooling related; I've made my very first Gasket, for the Water Pump. It took three attempts, but I got there in the end!
FCF 4.jpg
(that's the third engine by the way, not the one I'm working on to fit, I'd hoped the Gasket would come off 'complete enough' for a pattern; it didn't)

....but surely you're replacing the Water Pump and have a new Gasket, I hear you cry; it'd be silly not to for about £30. No, I'm not. Where do you stop? You replace the Pump then you've gotta replace the Idlers and it all starts to get silly, so no, I'm not replacing it and if it all goes TU (very appropriate that on a Pug Forum) then I'm not in so deep and I might feel all the more inclined to whip the lump out and do it all again... except as with so many things, its the details that take all the time, the swap itself shouldn't present too difficulty once all the groundwork's done.

I'm not one for throwing money at a car, so if it ever does die by the way and as I've said before, in all likelihood one day the tin-worm 'll do for it; I want a 106 Diesel. Daughter had two of 'em, Mks 1 and 2, and I loved em. Lets hope that day's a long way off.

I also thought to myself 'stuff it, I'll try n return the Alloy one, scratch 'n' all then I got this, pictured; Hmm return to Shanghai eh; think not... I did check the postage, it'd be £12, so I'm gonna keep it til the job's done then try n sell it for about a tenner.
FCF 2.jpg
Anyone potentially want it in the future?

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by white exec »

In theory you could delete that small hose from the rad top, but if the rad top is a "high point" with its top hose diving downwards, then it might be best to retain it, to allow any air trapped in the rad top to pass to the new header tank.
Good find that tank; didn't suspect that would be so difficult.

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Re: 405: Major Works

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

white exec wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 08:05
In theory you could delete that small hose from the rad top...
the Hose I was thinking of Deleting is this one, from the bottom of the rad fitting is slap bang next to the main big bore (36mm IIRC) Hose on the bottom of the Rad, then goes to the same Union behind the engine to 'stay mates with its big brother'. Old pic from my first bit of welding a few years back
Coolant Hose Routing 0939 Welding OSF.JPG
white exec wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 08:05
... didn't suspect it would be so difficult
Now how much of that difficulty is 'me' is open to question, but in my experience, something done for the first time always takes many times longer than expected