Car News-Global and Domestic

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Couple of TESLA stories. Tesla-centric sources but in the make things happen, get things done, ambition innovation and drive stakes, the other runners and riders are trailing well behind, and have plenty of ICE lead in their saddlebags.

Tesla Giga Texas: 3 Months Ago & Today

Why Legacy Auto Just Can’t Catch Elon Musk & Tesla

That said the world order has not changed at this point in time. TESLA make less than half a dozen different models currently in the mid to top price range. Even in their own back yard, they are way down the current list of sales, but growing while others decline.
temp4.png
REgards Neil

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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The chart above shows "the car in front is a Toyota" (one of their previous marketing phrases.)
He's quite a funny guy "Akio Toyoda", had some thoughts about Tesla.
“I am hesitant to say this — Tesla’s business, if you want to use the analogy, is like that of a kitchen and a chef,” he said. “They have not created a real business in the real world yet. They are trying to trade recipes. The chef is saying ‘Our recipe is going to become the standard of the world in the future!’ At Toyota, we have a real kitchen and a real chef too and are creating the dishes already. There are customers, who are very picky about what they like to eat, sitting in front of us, and eating our dishes already.”
Toyoda also pointed out that Toyota makes and sells a much higher volume and variety of cars than Tesla and referred to the 100 million Toyota vehicles that are on the road today. Taking another shot at Tesla, Toyoda called his company’s offerings a “full menu lineup,” which refers to Toyota’s mix of fossil fuel, hybrid, battery electric, and fuel cell vehicles.
and, currently you have to acknowledge Toyota's lets say existing success. Even their dubious marketing messages seem to be working...
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
20 Jul 2020, 14:09
Its about time a story from the Derby Telegraph made its way into our deliberations on this thread.
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton ... ck-4301085
The gist.....
Toyota have done it, historic record sales for June 2020, and led by their Hybrid stable.
Repeat the message often enough and it gets through. Toyota may be proved to be on the ball here.
Their job is to sell cars, and to do that they have to understand and target the market.

My assessment is
The public in general have got the message that 100% electric has a problem with range, and are concerned what happens if you run out.

The public have got the message that diesel in particular and petrol a bit less so are bad for the climate and pollution
So in spite of my own personal view of the self-charging hybrid, which does [sarcasm]I have to concede run on 2 sources of power....Petrol and Gasoline to be precise[/sarcasm], the Toyota strategy shows early signs of producing results,

Their self-charging hybrid message, appears to address the car-buying public's needs, and overcomes their objections. The Toyota runs on "two sorts of power", there is no faf of plugging in, or danger of running out, while at the same time being green as green can be when running on electric. :!:
Regards Neil

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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Toyota's "self-charging hybrid" remains a con, aimed at fooling many buyers into believing they are buying some sort of EV. Yes, it can make modest progress for very short distances with the ICE not operating, but then quite quickly it does operate.

Toyota have from the start remained very quiet about the proportion of road-time that their hybrids spend on Battery Only in real-life whole-life ownership.

These vehicles were always a marketing ploy to greenwash their continued ICE production, and very successful it has been - although utterly and cynically misleading.

Plug-in hybrids are marginally better, in at least potentially being able to source their battery power from less-polluting grid power. However, evidence has built of many business customers taking these PHEVs principally for tax purposes, with large numbers of drivers never using the charging leads.

City authorities are now catching on, with only 100% BEV beginning to be allowed into some ULEZs.

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

There is a bit of vagueness about which Hybrids will escape the ban on new sales of petrol and diesel cars from 2030.

There will be a consultation on it, I could almost write the SMMT's response now. Of course Tavares our friend at the head of Stellantis has already made his whinges clear, threatening to take his ball away.
Government consultation will determine which hybrid vehicles can be on sale beyond the 2030 ban on new petrol and diesel cars, say DfT
When the government outlined its 'Road to Zero' strategy in 2018, including a ban on new petrol and diesel cars from 2040, it said only hybrid cars 'capable of covering 50 miles or more' using electric power alone would remain on sale beyond the deadline.

At the time, 98 per cent of all hybrid cars on sale failed to meet that criteria
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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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If the government were sensible :? and actually intended see the end of internal combusion cars on the streets :?, they'd make the position for 2030+ absolutely clear now, otherwise the manufacturers will continue to offer and push ICE right up to the 11th hour, and then plea for exemptions. Give them 9 years now, and there can be no excuses; leave it 'til later, and all the objections will be rolled out.

We desperately need to get exhaust pipes off our urban streets, and away from our children, adults and the old. The time has come, just as it did with lead and coal. It's also a huge business and industrial opportunity, if you include all the infrastructure that will need to accompany it. There's also a huge tax opportunity to help tilt things in the right direction.

Am I optimistic for the UK with this? :?

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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I think any government that plays hard ball with the motorist will quickly find that they don't get re-elected, too many motorists who don't have the money to go electric until the battery range goes up and the price comes down.

"Gets the serfs back on the bus" isn't going to be accepted by most.

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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The just-about-coping (and that's a lot of folk in the UK now) aren't going to be buying new cars for the next good few years; that is the preserve of the more wealthy. So why not begin, now, to add a gradually ramped up sales tax to all new ICE purchases, and use that income to increase the subsidy on 100% EVs (while ensuring that the manufacturers don't just wind up their EV prices, of course) ?

Norway is already well down this path...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... are-norway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_e ... _in_Norway

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
29 Jan 2021, 11:12
...too many motorists who don't have the money to go electric until the battery range goes up and the price comes down.
white exec wrote:
29 Jan 2021, 11:24
The just-about-coping (and that's a lot of folk in the UK now) aren't going to be buying new cars for the next good few years; that is the preserve of the more wealthy. So why not begin, now, to add a gradually ramped up sales tax to all new ICE purchases, and use that income to increase the subsidy on 100% EVs (while ensuring that the manufacturers don't just wind up their EV prices, of course) ?
Yes, the measure itself only plans to ban the sales of new ICE cars from 2030, and gives the auto-industry reasonable notice to make the change. Legacy auto makers whinge, although amongst them VW are currently positioning themselves the most favourably, while the new kids on the block rub their hands and expand, and secure investment for their vision.

As far as the car buying public of the United Kingdom go...relax :!: .

When the clock strikes midnight on New Years Eve 2029, you will not have to phone the scrap man and get him to take away your existing car, and you will not have to buy a new expensive electric car. If you drive your existing ICE car on the roads of the United Kingdom, you will not be arrested, and your car will not be compulsorily crushed.

By that time there will be a greater variety of choice of used electric vehicles, at more affordable prices.
However your freedom of choice could be to buy up one of the increasing volume of used ICE vehicles which existing legacy auto manufacturers chose to churn out in the early years of the 2020's, and prior to that.

Just a guess but I would imagine such vehicles will be at "Bargain Basement" prices. I have to say here in 2021, the standard of vehicle you can get for under £500 now is light years ahead of what it was when I bought my first 10 year old mini for £380 back in 1978, as evidenced in The "Bargain Basement Motoring" thread.

Who knows? Car ownership is on the decline...younger people don't see the need or desire for a car as those of my generation did. The model of having a car which you own sitting idle for over 23 of 24 hours each day, may have been completely replaced by car clubs/mobility contracts and the like where you just have use of one when you need one.

I seriously expect in the 5-years lead up to 2030, the price of new-electric will have dipped well below the price of New ICE.
If this is the choice in 2030, something will have gone badly wrong :-D

"Its obvious you cant afford a new electric car, please hand over your existing old banger with the exhaust pipe, from 2030 forward you will have to PAYG on the bus if you want to go anywhere"
REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 29 Jan 2021, 13:25, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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When Ford and GM get off the fence, the message must be gradually sinking in. :-D

Regards Neil

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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So, the U.S. is to be the dumping ground for the last of the ICEs . . .

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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"Writing on LinkedIn, (GM) chief executive Mary Barra said: “It is understood that we will need to reduce the net impact of carbon emissions from all human activities to zero by 2050.

“As one of the world’s largest automakers, General Motors seeks to lead our industry and our world toward those goals.”

At this stage, the goal is described as an “aspiration”, and does not include medium and heavy trucks.
Yes you aren't quite there yet Mary, with your aspirational target. By then I am guessing the USA medium and heavy trucks business will be dominated by Tesla and Nikola, Arrival, maybe Rivian or any number of new players.....best have a peep at what the competition is doing right now! :-D

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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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The Truck in front is a Tesla Semi...

View from the cockpit....guessing GM still have cabs.
https://www.tesla.com/semi
https://www.tesla.com/semi
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Re: Car News-Global and Domestic

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The truck just behind is a Nikola
https://nikolamotor.com/
https://nikolamotor.com/
Regards Neil