Speed awareness courses

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bobins
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by bobins »

Re: Mobile phone use.

If you trust in what the 'Ask The Police' website* has to say, then the actual use of mobile phones in cars is very much permitted. It's the holding of the phones that is prohibited. Being distracted is a separate issue and is very much relevant to using a mobile phone.

What is the law in relation to using a mobile phone or other hand-held device whilst driving?

Edited highlights:
"There is a substantial body of research showing that using a mobile phone whilst driving, even legally via hands-free, is a considerable distraction and greatly increases the risk of a driver being involved in an accident.
.....if operating any device whether it's hand-held or not, affects your driving, you can still commit offences such as not being in proper control of your vehicle, careless or even dangerous driving. This also applies to operating any device in your vehicle e.g. car radio, sat nav etc
The legislation states that it's an offence for a person to drive or supervise the driving by a provisional licence holder, or cause or permit to be driven a motor vehicle on a road if the driver is using:

a hand-held mobile telephone, or
a hand-held device (other than a two-way radio) which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.

The use of a hand-held phone or a similar hand-held device while driving is against the law. A hand-held device is something that is or must be held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function. Provided that a phone can be operated without holding it, then hands-free equipment is not prohibited by this legislation. Therefore, the use of a phone as a sat nav is lawful providing you don't have to hold it.
Pushing buttons/touching a phone while it's in a cradle or on the steering wheel or handlebars of a motorbike for example is not covered by the above offence, provided you don't hold the phone. Therefore, in our opinion, if the device can allow for hands-free calls, such as when using Apple's Siri voice command system or using a car's compatible systems, it would be legal but inadvisable to use whilst driving. However, we would emphasise that ultimately this would be a matter for a court to decide."
https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q955.htm

*- Ask The Police:
'Ask the Police' is an official police resource that provides Q&A's to a wide variety of the general public's most frequently asked policing questions. It offers an alternative online option, reducing calls to the police, freeing up resources and saving money. The website provides links to relevant national organisations PLUS the facility to rate the answer and email a specific question directly which will be answered within 48 working hours by our legal team. Police forces are able to input additional local police information and advice for the benefit of their communities.
The 'Ask the Police' website was created by PNLD* as a result of a thematic inspection of call handling within the police service by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC ).

The PNLD (Police National Legal Database) is a not for profit business service of the Police and Crime Commissioner for West Yorkshire. For over 20 years PNLD has been providing up to date, accurate online criminal law information, including legislative guidance, case law and national standard offence wordings to the police service of England and Wales."
https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/g4.htm

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, I shall continue to be using mine (no hand held phone or Mic) as I have done over the last 14 years - both voice commanded on the RT3 and the NG4. Both have built in phones in the car and only my current car has Bluetooth as well. To be honest I never even think about it.

I have passed 3 lorry drivers this past week alone (2 white van man & 1 artic) all visibly holding mobiles and texting or chatting.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I should get a hands free kit for my C5 (the last one had a Nokia kit in that did a good job). My company van has Bluetooth built into the radio, and it is (because of the diversity of my work) invaluable; I could be heading to a low priority call and receive a call diverting me to a far higher priority one. I always try to be careful and alert, and work know that (if I ask them to be quiet, as I have to now concentrate on my driving) driving needs a high level of concentration depending on the current conditions.

admiral51
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by admiral51 »

I will retreat from this conversation, suffice to say once you have seen the consequences of a distracted driver whilst using a mobile phone, whether hands free or blue tooth, to play music or even part of an integrated manufacturers built in system then i think people will think twice.
I am old enough to remember the resistance to seat belts and drink driving, but when you see a 12 seater mini bus reduced to the size of a smart car but flat packed because someone was not holding a phone but using one then maybe people will take notice.
Yes i have referenced to my industry, HGV drivers, and we should know better and we have been informed about the risks, but still my fellow Professionals continue to ignore the risks they pose to the public and themselves.

HGVs make a mess when things go wrong, but so do 3.5t vans if they hit a car, so do cars if they hit a motorcyclist, let alone any of the above ploughing into pedestrians, and the latter also need to take responsibility for how they interact with what is going on around them, but at the end of the day i want to go to work and come home safe, but that is my choice on how i go about it, same as everyone else

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Michel
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by Michel »

admiral51 wrote:
10 Jun 2019, 19:50

Yes i have referenced to my industry, HGV drivers, and we should know better and we have been informed about the risks, but still my fellow Professionals continue to ignore the risks they pose to the public and themselves.


I agree 100% with your post. The things should be totally illegal to use in a car. I see *sooo* many people, professional or not using mobile phones on my way to and from work every day on my motorbike. It makes me very annoyed.

My solution is to simply open the taps and disappear out of their way. That's why so many motorcyclists go fast - to keep well clear of all the cretins. If you're ahead of them, they can't hurt you...

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I honestly believe that anybody wanting to go out on the road using ANY form of vehicle (be it bicycle, car, lorry, van or anything else) legally needs to undergo (as a minimum) basic training to teach them road awareness, and to prove they are safe to be out on the road. Tonight, walking back home from a pool match (it was only 10 minutes away, despite the weather), I saw two cyclists that had no concept of danger to themselves. Neither had any lights, neither had any reflectors, both were on the road, one was wearing reasonably bright waterproofs but the other was entirely in dark clothing. If I had been driving and hit the first one it would be debatable as to who would have been at fault, but if I had hit the second one I could have claimed that I did not see them until the last moment, and the Police probably would agree.

I was taught, at Primary School, the Green Cross Code. It was not a compulsory part of the school curriculum (well, I don't think so), but even today, well over forty years later, I still check to see if it is safe to cross the road. How many of us have had times when a pedestrian, busily looking at their phone, have stepped out into the road in front of us without looking? I know it has happened to me (fortunately I have not hit anybody, and I hope that this will continue), but I have then, upon making my presence known, been gesticulated at. These people may well find themselves, in future, winning The Darwin Award.

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van ordinaire
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Post by van ordinaire »

Bit late to this party, so a few random thoughts:-
In the early days of mobile phones I never understood how/why taking a call (I simply couldn't imagine anyone doing anything else) was any more dangerous than chatting to your passenger - until my car sustained very slight damage as a result of someone who couldn't control a supermarket trolley & talk on a phone at the same time.
I once got a speeding ticket in the 2CV - no, really, don't laugh
I have been on one of those courses (I thought you were only allowed to go on one) - still got the 3 points though!
Not all 20mph limits are enforced as there are types & zones (I think it is) are controlled by bumps, cushions, chicanes, strategically positioned planters & other obstacles, etc, etc