Speed awareness courses

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admiral51
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by admiral51 »

Well i think the biggest problem is that the Mobile Phone it seems wrong that people still think it is ok to use it when driving.
Have a look at Drunk or Texting .

Some of you will remember the lorry crash on the A34 when 3 kids and a step mother were killed by a lorry driver using his phone to play music, somewhere there is a small clip of it but doing my driver CPC training we get to see the whole thing filmed from within the cab and then see the wreckage, totally avoidable.

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myglaren
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by myglaren »

Agreed.
Even just down my street, about fifty yards that I can see from my windows, there are lots of drivers on their phones and they have just got into their cars, why can't they wait a couple of minutes and conclude their call.
There are many parked cars here most of the time and lots of little kids running around, on bikes and scooters, many have little or no road sense, which is to be expected, but drivers should but appear to be even less aware than the kids.
Worse is we are only a couple of hundred yards from a primary school.

Even worse on the town and country roads. I wonder what it can be that is so important that they have to yammer away all the time and can't set time aside to stop and make the urgent calls - or at least get a hands-free kit.

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bobins
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by bobins »

I've often wondered what would happen if all motorists stuck exactly to the letter of the motoring law. What would be the knock-on effect if they all kept perfect stopping distances - would that cause more tailbacks in certain areas as capacity would be reduced ? If everyone slowed immediately to lower speed limits when they reached them i.e. 70mph down to 50mph - would that cause following motorists to slam on their brakes and cause a knock-on effect down the line of heavy traffic ? If HGV drivers stuck to the single carriageway limits would that provoke more motorists to try and overtake ? I doubt very much whether everyone sticking to the letter of the law would have a massive impact (no pun intended), but it would be interesting to see what the end result would be to traffic flows and motoring in general - better ? worse ? or just different ?

admiral51
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by admiral51 »

myglaren wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 13:21
I wonder what it can be that is so important that they have to yammer away all the time and can't set time aside to stop and make the urgent calls - or at least get a hands-free kit.
Steve the law is the same, it is against the law to drive whilst using a mobile, hands-free or hand held, rule 149 in the Highway Code.
Again it was a HGV driver at fault, the crash on the M1 early hours when a minibus was stopped behind a stationary HGV ( He was jailed for 10 years ) in lane 1 around 3am when the other HGV driver hit the minibus @ 56 mph, that driver had 11 seconds to see the minibus but did not even swerve let alone brake, he was still on a hands free call that had been going on for an hour at the time of the crash, 11 seconds may not seem much but do nothing for 11 seconds and it seems to take forever to get to 11 :(

Drink driving was normal, now it is anti social, maybe time for the same type of penalties for using a mobile at the wheel, until people get banned by default for using one behind the wheel then nothing will change.
Both phone and vehicle manufacturers could go a long way by putting in or removing software that disables them whilst the vehicle is moving by default, not by an option in the settings.

We see with our eyes but the process of understanding what we see is handled by the brain, if the focus of the brain is on something else then yes we see it, just do not process it.

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bobins
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by bobins »

admiral51 wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 16:52

Steve the law is the same, it is against the law to drive whilst using a mobile, hands-free or hand held, rule 149 in the Highway Code.


On a point of order :

"Rule 149

You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. You MUST NOT use a hand-held mobile phone, or similar device, when driving or when supervising a learner driver, except to call 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency when it is unsafe or impractical to stop. Never use a hand-held microphone when driving. Using hands-free equipment is also likely to distract your attention from the road. It is far safer not to use any telephone while you are driving or riding - find a safe place to stop first or use the voicemail facility and listen to messages later.

You may park your vehicle using a hand-held remote control app or device. The app or device MUST be legal, and you should not put other people in danger when you use it."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 103-to-158

admiral51
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by admiral51 »

bobins wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 16:31
If HGV drivers stuck to the single carriageway limits would that provoke more motorists to try and overtake ?


bobins that theory was used to actually increase the speed limit for HGV on single roads from 40 to 50 mph, i cannot remember the exact stats and it was a study by the RHA but they say that the image of HGV vehicles has improved since the speed limit increase, people are not being or feel that they are not being held up by HGV as much.

As for sticking to the limit i think you can find the results in real life, the variable speed limits on the M25 in particular do cause a build up of traffic behind those that are ahead and in the reduced limit zone. Once the Tech detects a build of traffic the Tech then reduces the limit further back increasing the build up whilst up ahead the traffic is free flowing at 70 mph ?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes not illegal to use built in telematic systems at all or they would not supply them as standard or optional equipment with the cars. Using voice commands is no different to talking to your passengers - which no doubt be the next nanny state rule to kick in. Nect they'll be saying you can't operate any of the car's controls as that is a distraction.

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bobins
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by bobins »

Many years ago I visited one of the M25 control centres. The question was asked about the variable speed limits - "What causes the speed limits to increase again once they've reduced ?" The answer - "The motorists ignoring the limit and travelling faster than the posted limits over (unspecified) distance". Wonder if the system has been updated, or if we all stuck to the posted variable speed limits would it take manual intervention to raise them again ? 8-[

admiral51
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by admiral51 »

The wording in the Highway Code rule 149 is key here, as you rightly stated bobbins the first 11 words are the ones that matter.
The MUST NOT use a hand held mobile phone or similar device covers inbuilt systems such as blue tooth by including the word use
You do not have to hold a phone to be using it.
You will notice that hand held microphones are under the should not use category, whilst not saying you can use them free from risk of prosecution it still falls under the first 11 words of rule 149.

Marc i understand where you are coming from but if you are talking to/manually adjusting the radio/cd player or even adjusting the temperature and you have an accident then the first 11 words of rule 149 could land you with a charge of driving without due and attention :(

Nanny state maybe, but if we are 50% more likely to have an accident whilst talking on the phone whilst driving than being drunk driving then why is it still okay to do it :cry:

Would any of us take a pint/can/bottle of beer and drink it whilst driving and think it is okay, yet it seems its okay to take our phones and have a chat/text on them whilst driving :?

MikeT
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by MikeT »

You can't be a hollywood hero if you're not breaking every traffic law there is.

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Michel
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by Michel »

admiral51 wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 18:03
Would any of us take a pint/can/bottle of beer and drink it whilst driving and think it is okay, yet it seems its okay to take our phones and have a chat/text on them whilst driving :?


I did this only yesterday! Felt paranoid as hell doing it though.

We had a BBQ at home. In the afternoon I nipped to the local Waitrose to get some drinks. One of the items was a pack of 4 cans of Thatchers cider. As I put them in a bag with some bags of ice in the car, one can punctured and started spraying everywhere, so as I had no receptacle to catch the mess, I put the punctured bit to my lips and simply drank it as it came out. I only drank 1/3 of the can before the level dropped enough for me to be able to stand it upside down in the cupholder and drive home.

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bobins
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by bobins »

The UK Government has a slightly different take on the interpretation of the law:


"Using a phone or a sat nav when driving

It’s illegal to hold a phone or sat nav while driving or riding a motorcycle. You must have hands-free access, such as:

a bluetooth headset
voice command
a dashboard holder or mat
a windscreen mount
a built-in sat nav

The device must not block your view of the road and traffic ahead.

You must stay in full control of your vehicle at all times. The police can stop you if they think you’re not in control because you’re distracted and you can be prosecuted.

The law still applies to you if you’re:

stopped at traffic lights
queuing in traffic
supervising a learner driver

When you can use a hand-held phone

You can use a hand-held phone if either of these apply:

you’re safely parked
you need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop

Penalties

You can get 6 penalty points and a £200 fine if you use a hand-held phone when driving. You’ll also lose your licence if you passed your driving test in the last 2 years.

You can get 3 penalty points if you don’t have a full view of the road and traffic ahead or proper control of the vehicle.

You can also be taken to court where you can:

be banned from driving or riding
get a maximum fine of £1,000 (£2,500 if you’re driving a lorry or bus)"

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones- ... ng-the-law

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Michel
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by Michel »

myglaren wrote:
09 Jun 2019, 13:21
I wonder what it can be that is so important that they have to yammer away all the time and can't set time aside to stop and make the urgent calls - or at least get a hands-free kit.


Nothing. Nothing at all. I can't remember the last time someone called me to tell me something important. I generally don't use a phone for talking on.

Gibbo2286
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by Gibbo2286 »

Bobins "What would be the knock-on effect if they all kept perfect stopping distances -"

Simple answer the traffic would flow more freely, less delays caused by the tidal wave effect (One car slowing, the car too close behind braking harder and each one behind doing the same until there's a full stop at the rear and a queue forming) only to be released after the first one gets back up to speed and the snarl up unwinds.
If everyone maintained 50mph and kept the appropriate spacing all journeys would be quicker and more pleasant but it's not going to happen because the guy in the BMW or Golf will leap frog into the gaps so he's a minute in front at the next traffic lights. #-o

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bobins
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Re: Speed awareness courses

Unread post by bobins »

The trouble with making traffic flow more freely, is that they flow more freely straight to the next bottleneck. Hold-ups on feeder roads into a town actually help to regulate the amount of traffic in that town.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction !