Speed awareness courses

[Hell Razor5543]

The order is; Rural, Urban, Motorway. Around town, while there are a lot more vehicles, they are typically travelling at low speeds. On motorways, although the speeds are higher, the vehicles are travelling the same way (so the relative energy is low). However, on rural roads the speeds are quite high, and you have a much greater likelihood of head on impacts (as compared to motorways), so the relative energy at impact is far higher.

[bobins]

Motorways cover 1% of the road network and 6% of fatalities happen on them.
Urban roads cover 38% of the road network and 32% of fatalities happen on them.
Rural roads cover 61% of the road network and 62% of fatalities happen on them.
All figures rounded.

As a straightforward statement, you're a lot more likely to be killed if you're on a motorway. However, it's different if you factor in how many miles are travelled by vehicles on each type of road, then Hell Razor's statement is true.

Funny things, statistics.

Source: Road Traffic Estimates: Great Britain 2017, DfT
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... n-2017.pdf

[bobins]

Interesting ONS statistics on contributory factors in accidents. Note - Accidents, not deaths.

Accident statistics, ONS - fair use

Travelling too fast for the conditions and exceeding the speed limit are collectively both only liable as a contributory factor in 12% of accidents. Straightforward not looking properly is a contributory factor in 41% of accidents.

[Gibbo2286]

Referring to statistics is not a lot of good if you or your one of your loved ones are on the mortuary slab.

[bobins]

I know that only too well, Gibbo. A chap I knew well killed himself a couple of years ago by driving too fast. No one else to blame. His parents and sisters would do anything to get him back.
Speeding, or excessive speed, is one of those things that's perfectly OK right up until the split second it isn't. If you're lucky you get to regret it.

[Gibbo2286]

We had a case here, a young chap in a Vauxhall (Vectra I think) stopped and picked up two mates, he'd had a few drinks and was showing off it's believed, as he sped off down the road a guy on the footpath remarked to his wife "Hell never get round the bend at that speed." he didn't, his car was buried deep in a stone shed at the roadside and all three were dead.

Family of the other two tore up his grave dressing in anger so his family had that to bear too.

[Michel]

It's definitely "not looking" that is a major factor. I'd be lying if l said I never break speed limits - I don't, not in 30 zones or built up areas, but... I ride an 1100cc motorbike

I also commute on the M4 from Reading to Heathrow on it. The amount of people I see simply not looking before a manoeuvre is simply stunning. It is no surprise accidents happen. People drive too close and too fast.

On rural roads I see total f@&king idiots on motorbikes. Usually the well-off with all the gear and a flash new bike. You know these people have never fallen off. I grew up riding on rural roads so I know that there could be a tractor round the next bend with its bailer sticking out the back, or coming round the bend with a wide trailer.. Or a horse, or mud/sh1te, or a random vehicle appearing out of a hidden gate. I tend to stick "around" speed limits on rural roads unless I know the road very well, I can see a long way and there's no way for anything to suddenly appear.

Speed alone doesn't kill. *inappropriate* speed kills

[bobins]

Many moons ago, when I passed my bike test, I asked my trainer just as I was about to depart for home with my pass chitty in my hand : "If there's one thing I do on my bike to try and stay alive, what is it ?" Expecting the answer to be - don't speed, wear the correct clothing, don't go out in the ice, or something similar. His response was simple - "Observation". That advice has stayed with me ever since.

[aerodynamica]

Well, the course is done and dusted and was actually pretty good. Semi interactive and was informative. Revealed glaring gaps in my knowledge such as what constitutes a single carriegway and that if you buy a pick-up that was previously registered for business use it could have a different (lower) speed category than you think.. not that I'd buy a pick-up though. Similar facts for camper vans. Also interesting notes on the speed camera 10%+ 3mph thing. Apparently any margin of error is completely at the discretion of the police force in question and it is sometimes ZERO. Interactive hazard perception type things and useful quick ways to know the speed limit and when it changes on the same road. All the people there were well behaved too although one roaster argued with the statistics of road deaths saying it doesn't take account of people jumping off bridges.... there's always one. Anyway, pretty good way of aoiding 3 points.

[Peter.N.]

You must be about the same age as me Gibbo. I have never had a ticket, endorsement (as they were then) or a prosecution - I have had a few warnings though, in my youth of course.

Peter

[Michel]

His response was simple - "Observation". That advice has stayed with me ever since.

This, and the occasional dose of good luck, is why I'm still in one piece at 46 years old and have never really injured myself on a motorcycle <touches everything made of wood in sight>

1990 - fell off locking the front wheel on a damp patch of road in Greece at slow speed.
1995 - fell off at a snail's pace on ice in a car park
1996 - hit a sheep at 30mph, a glancing blow, I didn't fall off amazingly, but my footpeg hit the sheep in the head hard enough to kill it.
1996 - fell off pretty much at a standstill trying to impress ladies in the office car park wheelie-ing, but the rear tyre spun up and I fell off instantly!
2018 - fell off at a standstill at a junction when I'd tucked my trousers into my boots too tightly and couldn't get my foot down quick enough on a cambered road surface which sloped away from me.

I don't claim to be an expert or safe motorcyclist. I just hope I'm not totally bloody stupid.

[Hell Razor5543]

I have ambivalent feelings about motorcycles. I can see the fun in them, but I will always remember Jo, my brothers' girlfriend. Late one October she was heading into work (at the stables) when she went down on her moped after hitting a patch of wet leaves and went under a lorry. At least two of her injuries would have instantly killed her. It was nobodies fault, just a simple accident.

[Michel]

I have ambivalent feelings about motorcycles. I can see the fun in them, but I will always remember Jo, my brothers' girlfriend. Late one October she was heading into work (at the stables) when she went down on her moped after hitting a patch of wet leaves and went under a lorry. At least two of her injuries would have instantly killed her. It was nobodies fault, just a simple accident.

Observation.

Thankfully training before you're even allowed on the road on a 50cc moped has improved so much over the years that hopefully awful incidents like this are few and very far between.

[MikeT]

Do these courses include awareness of going too slow and causing huge tailbacks? It's a common problem round these parts in 50 and national limits on single carriageways. I find drivers on these roads merrily cruising as slow as 35mph (usually 45-ish) who typically continue at the same speed when entering a 40/30mph limit?

[NewcastleFalcon]

screenshot

Its a while since I looked at this chart. Quite relevant today though as we ventured over the border via the A1. I was probably doing just short of 60 on one of the single carriageway sections of the A1 and was overtaken by an articulated lorry. Being a bit out of touch I thought the speed limit for those things on single carriageway roads was 40m.p.h.

Yes I was wrong, it was changed up to 50mph from 2015, but only in England and Wales.....still 40 mph in Scotland.

The other thing which I was aware of, is the 50 mph limit for "goods vehicles not exceeding 7.5 tonnes" on single carriageway roads. Is this ever complied with by the UK's van driving fleet?

Of course there is the "car derived van" exception to allow that extra 10mph, but only if doesn't exceed 2 tonnes maximum laden weight.

Regards Neil