Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

KeithJ
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2019, 13:27
x 1

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by KeithJ » 07 Jun 2019, 19:52

Apologies I just wanted to confirm as I used to get a noise when I turned the ignition key that is no longer present.

I will keep searching for the fault.

moizeau
donor 2018
Posts: 729
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 17:08
x 91

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by moizeau » 07 Jun 2019, 19:58

Wasn't there someone else who had a pump fitted when it shouldn't have had one? I wonder if that (the previous thread) someone fitted one to get round the original issue? Whether it should or shouldn't have one, it would be easy to see if it has.

KeithJ
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2019, 13:27
x 1

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by KeithJ » 12 Jun 2019, 00:01

hiya! I still haven't found the actual fault. Fuel is not being pumped into the filter housing. Is there a fuel cutoff solenoid anywhere that could be causing this problem if it's faulty? I obviously would like to look at potentially cheaper options first before possibly replacing the HP fuel pump.

I'm getting a bit disheartened with it to be honest.

Any pointers would be gratefully received.

It's difficult getting any meaningful readings on diagbox by simply cranking the engine particularly working alone.

Gibbo2286
Posts: 4014
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 528

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by Gibbo2286 » 12 Jun 2019, 09:08

I think I said this before on the thread Moiz refers to, try by-passing the supply line by gravity feeding the fuel from a can direct to after the filter, if it runs from there you likely have an air leak or a blockage in the tank to filter line or the filter, then move your feed to before the filter to eliminate that as a cause.

If it won't start when by-passed then the problem is in the high pressure system.

wheeler
Posts: 3830
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
x 84

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by wheeler » 12 Jun 2019, 10:47

Will it fire up with a sniff of easy start?

KeithJ
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2019, 13:27
x 1

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by KeithJ » 12 Jun 2019, 18:42

Thanks for your advice guys. It won't start when by passed and it won't start from easy start. I'm suspecting HP fuel pump or a cutoff solenoid if there is one in the fuel circuit. If there is a cutoff on the HP side, can anyone tell me where it is please.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 923
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 278

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by mickthemaverick » 12 Jun 2019, 18:54

Since your car was not fitted with an in tank pump originally, although it might have been modified since, it may either have an inline pump located near the fuel tank, which would be what you used to hear with ignition, or it may rely on High Pressure Pump sucking the fuel from the tank which I doubt. The low pressure pump apparently has a control relay mounted on the bulkhead, see this info from C4 forum:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/citr ... rt.193038/
I may be able to come and give you a hand if you want, PM me if so. Good Luck :)

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16925
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1575

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jun 2019, 19:42

KeithJ wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 18:42
Thanks for your advice guys. It won't start when by passed and it won't start from easy start. I'm suspecting HP fuel pump or a cutoff solenoid if there is one in the fuel circuit. If there is a cutoff on the HP side, can anyone tell me where it is please.
No, you don't have one, it's more sophisticated than that:

In an impact, the Airbag ECU informs the BSI via the CAN network; the BSI then informs the Engine ECU via the CAN IS network; the Engine ECU then sends the fuel pump cut off command, which cuts of the supply.

KeithJ
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2019, 13:27
x 1

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by KeithJ » 12 Jun 2019, 20:07

Thanks everybody. It had to be complicated. :)

wheeler
Posts: 3830
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
x 84

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by wheeler » 12 Jun 2019, 22:13

KeithJ wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 18:42
Thanks for your advice guys. It won't start when by passed and it won't start from easy start. I'm suspecting HP fuel pump or a cutoff solenoid if there is one in the fuel circuit. If there is a cutoff on the HP side, can anyone tell me where it is please.

does the engine at least fire on easy start though? if it doesent even kick with easy start then its not a fuel problem.

Gibbo2286
Posts: 4014
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 528

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by Gibbo2286 » 13 Jun 2019, 09:23

I'd still be wanting to confirm that the timing belt is ok.

KeithJ
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2019, 13:27
x 1

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by KeithJ » 13 Jun 2019, 14:48

Timing belt is ok, needs replacement but not broken or stretched.

It looks as though it's the pressure control valve on the HP diesel pump is faulty. I have it out.

It's a Siemens pump with what seems to be a Bosch control valve (no numbers on it to confirm, but searches suggest it is).

I see no movement of the solenoid when I put voltage across it.

If anyone knows what the acceptable resistance reading for these are I would be most grateful.

It's the kind of valve listed here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-PUMP-PR ... #vi-ilComp

Happily the cam lobes don't appear to have sheared off as was mentioned earlier as a possible fault.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 923
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 278

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by mickthemaverick » 13 Jun 2019, 17:19

Hi Keith,
The valve you have indicated is manufactured by Siemens I believe. If you address your question to them you should get the info you need. This is the email address I have used in the past:
Service.gbi.industry@siemens.com

Cheers

KeithJ
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2019, 13:27
x 1

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by KeithJ » 13 Jun 2019, 18:45

Thank you. I will follow it up. I put voltage over the solenoid again and it worked. I don't know if it was stuck in some way. I tried a number of times when it didn't move so I suspect an intermittent fault.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
donor 2019
Posts: 923
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 278

Re: Car lost power accelerating then engine stopped. It won't start

Post by mickthemaverick » 13 Jun 2019, 21:19

Intermittant faults are a pig at the best of times, but in the fuel system can be positively dangerous. No fun if the motor cuts out in the fast lane of the M25! I'd try spraying the piston end with WD or similar and repeatedly operating to prove the point, however if that does make it work more reliably I'd accept that the solenoid internal is contaminated and hence I'd fit a new one. Worth refitting and test running to confirm it was your problem before forking out though! :)