C5 . . . . which model is this?

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pasalima
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by pasalima »

Thanks Marc,

I'm trying to find a replacement rather than shipping my own back and forth, so I just want to make sure to source the correct one.

I'm very happy to make a donation, you guys have been very helpful over the years.

Glad to hear that your replacement is still going strong, it augurs well for me! It also speaks volumes when a small engineering company can do a better job than the actual car makers themselves.

Is there a thread that explains the cause of the problem? Would I be correct in thinking that the corrosion only affects he upright part of the steering rack? (ie. where it comes through the foot well)

Anyway, thanks for the confirmation, I'll go shopping now.

Regards,
Paul
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Paul
I think you'll find most of these (including Autosteer) are exchange only units - hence the price! They require you r old one back after fitting the new so that becomes a refurb for the next customer. The price will usually include a refundable surcharge when you return your original, so you only have to send it back when yours is fitted. Unless you are prepared to wait for ages if you want your original one refurbished - but I don't see the point in that to be honest.

The main cause tends to be water getting to and sitting in the well of the steering pinion. This then starts to corrode the pinion near the bottom of the pinion seal. Once this happens, the seal becomes deformed allowing more water in and the rust progresses into the system. Once this happens, it becomes not just an issue for the pinion, but the rust then gets into the rack internals and starts to destroy the internal seals and other parts - so a complete refurb usually involves a complete internal dismantling, cleaning and rebuild where needed and a coating and treatment to help prevent this happening again. They usually provide a 3 year guarantee on their refurbs - which puts the OEM ones to shame with their 12 months.

My thread with excellent contributions from the other members here:

viewtopic.php?t=60155

Kenny's thread here:
viewtopic.php?p=642564#p642564

Stu's thread here:
viewtopic.php?t=58498
pasalima
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by pasalima »

Hi Marc,

Yeah, that was the plan, however, I just spoke to Autosteer and they tell me they don't have a suitable rack
(they sold their last one this morning) so, a same day job will now take a week if I decide to send them mine.
Claire in Autosteer claims a 24 hour turn around and she also said that they chrome the pinion seal portion.

Thanks for the links, I had quick look and I think I understand the problem a bit better. The real issue is that the rack would need to be out (or at least the portion to be treated) to coat it with epoxy. And since autosteer chrome plate the weak point, it does the same job. I reckon that's what enables them to offer a 3 yr warranty.
Citroen should be doing something similar with their modified part!

Anyway, I'll keep looking before I decide to refurb my own, I might come across another one.

Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Paul
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Citroen's £2000 (at the time I had mine replaced at the dealer) modified rack involves this amazing feat of engineering:
ring.PNG
ring.PNG (79.57 KiB) Viewed 101 times
(Extract from Bobin's Picture :-D )

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do - but getting them to email you of when they get a rack in may be beneficial if it is proving difficult to source one.

£1406.22 is the current Citroen VAT inclusive price of a new one - plus of course the obligatory £279 exchange fee refundable when they get your rack back, so a total of £1685.22
pasalima
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by pasalima »

Thanks Marc,

I actually saw that image in the posts . . . . it looks like a carved up bottle top!

I gave Claire my number and the correct part no etc., however, I won't hold my breath, as I reckon
the C5's probably the most sought after steering rack . . . bar none. I'll give it a few days before I do
anything, but it looks like I'll be sending mine off for a refurb.

I have to laugh at Citroen's prices, you wouldn't mind if the parts were designed to last.

All the best,
Paul
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes - personally I can't see how it can be a design issue - as the racks are essentially very similar in operation and design across PSA and other vehicles.

My money is on the quality of the materials and I suspect this batch that were made, may of been part of the dodgy Japanese Steel fiasco. We'll never know now, as I suspect it was going on long before they were found out. With the mergers and take-overs that have since occurred and the supply chain, I'm resigned that it has to be substandard material to rust like this. There can't be any other explanation - otherwise why aren't all cars having this issue with their pinions?

Until this, I've never had an issue with any car over a steering rack. My CX Prestige got to the stage where the doors were hanging off due to rust, and the spheres were rusted onto the units, but the divari steering worked like a treat and I could turn it with my little finger!
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by Peter.N. »

If you haven't tried a steel sprung one, I would. I was amazed when I drove my first one. With the right tyres the ride is very good and quiet, better than most other cars on the road today and simpler of course, much less likely to require an expensive repair. I also opted for a manual also on the grounds of simplicity, economy and longevity.

One of mine has virtually the Exclusive spec but manual and steel springs. Must have been a special order when new.

Peter
pasalima
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by pasalima »

Hi Marc,

I’ve tracked down a steering rack, however, I’d like to be sure it’s the correct one before purchasing.
Markings on it suggest it’s from a 2009 C5 and I’ve attached a few images.
Steering rack
Steering rack
66F1CA70-0273-46A7-9BC7-91EACBE8694B.jpeg
59DCC85D-DA22-4FB0-869A-97D3B071DC31.jpeg
6AC51109-B59D-462B-9A40-66BDD37575D6.jpeg
893A687F-9BEF-43E9-9642-2349A910ED63.jpeg
I’d appreciate if anyone can tell me if it’s the correct rack for my car. (2011 C5 x7)

Many thanks,
Paul
Peter.N.
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by Peter.N. »

As far as I know they are pretty well all the same. You can get a recon one delivered for about 180 pounds, if you go for that one make absolutely certain that the pinion seal isn't leaking. I'm sure someone will be along to tell you if I'm wrong about the fitment.

Peter
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Paul-R
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by Paul-R »

There is a difference between the steering racks on cars with 16" wheels compared to the ones withy 17", 18" or 19". I think the internal stops are set differently to give a different turning circle. Whether this can be ascertained by looking inside I don't know. Maybe if there's a part number on the label it might help identification?
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

pasalima wrote:
09 Jul 2020, 19:06
Hi Marc,

I’ve tracked down a steering rack, however, I’d like to be sure it’s the correct one before purchasing.
Markings on it suggest it’s from a 2009 C5 and I’ve attached a few images.

I’d appreciate if anyone can tell me if it’s the correct rack for my car. (2011 C5 x7)

Many thanks,
Paul
Hi Paul

I can't tell you without a part number number or other identification - perhaps check the label or a clearer photo of the label. It is essential you get the correct rack as they are not the same. There are multiple part numbers for not only the different angles, but also C5s with different engines had different part numbers for the racks and again they changed depending on the build date.

The racks have 2 different steering angles a 180° and a 184°

The replacement part number for the latest rack is: 9801415480 for your specific C5, or 4001W3 was the part number for the original rack.
pasalima
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Re: C5 . . . . which model is this?

Post by pasalima »

Thanks Pete, Paul, I was hoping to get a replacement rack refurbed so that I could just swap out with my own,
but it looks like I might have to take my own out and get it done. I tried all the obvious sources but none have any in stock.

You're right Marc, I did quote the 9801415480 number & 180 deg (that you gave me) to findapart when searching and this was the only link that came back. I'll keep searching for another few weeks, but I might have to bite the bullet and get my own done.
Thanks,
Paul