The Hydrogen Thread

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CitroJim
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by CitroJim »

No good asking me to find links Neil... I'm useless at that!

You're the master at that art ;)

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by mickthemaverick »

This is a pretty good read on the subject:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... ate-change

:)

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 12:05
This is a pretty good read on the subject:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... ate-change

:)
it is :-D

latest.....hydroflex testing on the mainline September 2020


Regards Neil

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

and on the "continent"

Following successful trials in Germany, the Coradia iLint – a hydrogen fuel cell powered train developed by French rail giant Alstom – has begun carrying passengers on Austria’s train network.

but maybe of more interest Alstom's plans for the UK. Its presented in a "presentation" format but is less than 9 minutes and very informative. Good news for Widnes =D> go the green industrial revolution :-D



Regards Neil

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by CitroJim »

Excellent Neil :D

You've come up trumps again with your 'Net searching!

Interesting stuff ;)

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

CitroJim wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 17:48
Excellent Neil :D

You've come up trumps again with your 'Net searching!

Interesting stuff ;)
...and Mick who dug out the first article. Like many others I have sat through many presentations and they have universally one thing in common, they are boring in the extreme. However I took a real interest in what the chap from Alstom had to say and great if they construct the trains in the North West at Widnes.

Regards Neil

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by CitroJim »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 17:56


...and Mick who dug out the first article.
Sorry :oops: And a big thank you too Mick :D

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Well, I saw a Toyota Mirai 69 reg on the M25 close to Cobham Services yesterday morning.

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 17:11
Well, I saw a Toyota Mirai 69 reg on the M25 close to Cobham Services yesterday morning.
Best place to see them James, they gather there for feeding...

https://www.itm-power.com/h2-stations/s ... en-station

Regards Neil

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

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NewcastleFalcon wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 18:41
Best place to see them James, they gather there for feeding...
Like wildebeest around a muddy watering hole...

The Toyota Mirai looks like it may have taken most of its 'styling' cues from said animal :roll:

It's not exactly easy on the eye... Not mine at any rate :lol:

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Scotland's Hydrogen Scheme

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Every so often I will have a dip into the world of Hydrogen and today up comes this

Scotland’s Green Hydrogen Scheme Trumps Blue H2 BS

The headline alone tells you the point of view of the clean technica author of the piece.

As well as the article I like to give the comments a quick scan. There really is too much talk/government policies and strategies for Hydrogen to go away, but it does have its inherent drawbacks. Its not a source of energy its a store of energy and there are probably better stores of energy than H2, and much better distribution networks than carting hydrogen around the roads and rails in special containers, or through a leaky gas infrastructure.

Already newbuild homes will not be allowed to be connected to the gas grid from 2025 in the UK. Insulation and heat pumps will become the new norm for providing space heating in homes.

The oil and gas industries see "blue hydrogen" made from fossil fuels with carbon capture, a use for their products. Take natural gas CH4 capture the C bit and the other bit 2H2 and you have what is known as Blue Hydrogen with Carbon Capture. No Co2 when you burn blue hydrogen in your boiler, or use it in a fuel cell car train bus lorry aeroplane, or make steel with it. The carbon captured as "carbon black" if its worthless toss it down a convenient hole, or use it to make things. Carbon fibre? Graphene? other things we haven't thought of yet.
Oh if they could replicate my simplistic Chemistry and end up with Pure carbon and pure hydrogen. Current state of CCS for "Blue Hydrogen" , is that current industrial processes for making hydrogen from fossil fuels produce a lot of CO2 and "capture it" by piping it into undersea/underground storage in empty gas fields, or as one example of CCS in California did, the captured CO2 was transported by 80 miles of dedicated pipeline to an oil field where the gas was injected, boosting oil production and ultimately generating more CO2.
Scotland and the rest of UK and Europe want to move towards Green Hydrogen from renewable energy sources if there is to be a hydrogen element to the energy economy. Before it happens expect a push from "Oil and Gas" of Blue Hydrogen as a last throw of their dice. With maybe a bit of synthetic fuel BS thrown in.

REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 23 Dec 2020, 19:25, edited 2 times in total.

Peter.N.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by Peter.N. »

On Orkney I believe they are actually making hydrogen with SURPLUS energy, they generate more green energy than they can use, they export some to the main land but not enough, so they have SPARE energy which is the only economic way of producing hydrogen. How many places have spare energy?

Peter

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Peter.N. wrote:
23 Dec 2020, 18:23
On Orkney I believe they are actually making hydrogen with SURPLUS energy, they generate more green energy than they can use, they export some to the main land but not enough, so they have SPARE energy which is the only economic way of producing hydrogen. How many places have spare energy?
The fossil fuel with carbon capture route also fails on energy in energy out basis when producing Hydrogen for use as an energy "carrier" or store to use in transportation, industrial processes or management of the electricity grid.

Natural Gas when it comes out the ground requires a fair amount of initial processing to extract pure methane from the mix of gases which it is, including a fair bit of carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulphide and various metals and other hydrocarbons. Research has been done on a process of Methane Cracking which does produce pure carbon and Hydrogen (as per the CH4 to C and 2H2) but the temperature level and consequent energy input required is huge compared to the bit conserved in the hydrogen produced.

One comment on the article summed it up.....
"Slowburn DECEMBER 1, 2015 04:48 AM
So they are going to use vast amounts of energy to remove energy from methane to make a gas that is a lousy motor fuel."

Read for yourself its a bit old but I don't think the breakthrough has happened yet for an industrial scale process.
New process produces hydrogen from methane, without emitting CO2
Regards Neil

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by Peter.N. »

That sounds about right. In any event the amount of energy required to produce it is ridiculous compared with the energy you get from it

Peter