The Hydrogen Thread

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mickthemaverick
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

NewcastleFalcon wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 12:16
.......................... on making Hydrogen.


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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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Cash boost to build first-ever liquid hydrogen plane
TWO TEESSIDE businesses have received significant funding boosts as part of plans to develop a world first plane powered by liquid hydrogen.

The FlyZero project, led by the Aerospace Technology Institute, has unveiled its concept for a mid-size aircraft powered by liquid hydrogen which could pave the way for zero carbon global travel.

It could fly 279 passengers halfway around the world without a stop or anywhere in the world with just one stop to refuel.
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 12:25
NewcastleFalcon wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 12:16
.......................... on making Hydrogen.


Regards Neil
You can't make hydrogen!!! - Just saying......... :-D
Plain English Mick for the person on the Clapham omnibus, what would have been clearer :-D :?:

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

If they were on the omnibus I'm guessing 'isolating' might not have cut it, but how about 'separating' or maybe 'extracting' :-D
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I think I'll just continue making a conscious inaccuracy, in the interests of simplicity. :-D

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by myglaren »

Earlier today reading of Elon's plans to convert CO₂ to methane and oxygen for rocket fuel, primarily for the Mars jaunt and as a spinoff to generate oxygen for Marsonoughts.

Not here but basically the same using a Sabatier convertor.
The one-of-a-kind Raptor engines are designed by SpaceX to enable the first Mars settlers to synthesize fuel via In-situ resource utilization. Astronauts could build a propellant plant on the Red Planet to create Raptor engine fuel through the Sabatier process – which involves extracting carbon dioxide (CO2) from the planet’s atmosphere and digging subsurface ice-water to create liquid oxygen and liquid methane to fuel the spacecraft.
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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Plenty of CO2 in the Martian Atmosphere for part of the process, only not much accessible H2 unless access can be developed to sub surface water-ice reservoirs, the existence, size, and accessibility of these reservoirs is uncertain. The first part of the process is the electrolysis of water to produce the hydrogen. NASA envisage for a manned mission to Mars, hydrogen would be transported in preparatory cargo-only missions from Earth.

NASA have done a decent enough article here on "A crewed Mission to Mars" here

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/m ... ssurf.html

We could do with a decent space race, Musk v NASA for a leap forward in innovation.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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In hydrogen news.

Hyundai while having a bit of reorganisation, and reportedly dismantling its combustion engine R&D towards the end of 2021, in favour of a quicker push towards electrification, are still just about ploughing a H2 fuel cell furrow. A bit of European/France based publicity, probably sits well with Europe's appetite for hydrogen developments in its corridors of power.
Hyundai Nexo sets Hydrogen endurance record
On December 14th of 2021, French driver Adrien Tambay drove a stock Hyundai Nexo at for six straight hours in freezing, -6 degree C cold at an altitude of 2,220 meters (about 7200 ft.), completing 190 laps around the International Record Center for Carbon-Free Vehicles in Val Thorens (Savoie, France) on a single “tank” of hydrogen. Tambay covered approx. 413 miles in those six hours, giving him an average speed of more than 68 mph.
Official Hyundai Press Release 22.12.2021
https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/pr ... rcuit.html
Hyundai is convinced that hydrogen is one of the relevant solutions for decarbonising society. This vision is shared by many private and public players that we have been able to unite around this project. Hyundai is a pioneer in the development of hydrogen mobility. NEXO, our fuel cell electric SUV, demonstrates the extent to which this technology is already adapted to the needs of greener mobility, whatever the conditions.
Lionel French Keogh Managing Director of Hyundai Motor France
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Kawasaki Hydrogen Road 2021

One obvious omission from Kawasaki's "Hydrogen Road" 3 minute video.

The process to produce hydrogen (whether by electrolysis, or steam reformation of natural gas, or as in their animation starting with the gasification of coal), wastes a lot of energy. Producing the vast quantities to create a "hydrogen economy" wastes a vast quantity of energy.

So how could it possibly work :?:
1. In circumstances where there is a vast overcapacity of renewable energy, what Tony Seba describes as superabundant energy
2. Where there is a superabundance of fossil fuels Coal or Natural Gas, and the CO2, particulate matter and other waste of industrial production of hydrogen can all be captured and utilised or safely stored.
3. Where the costs of production (inc those of carbon capture and storage), liquification, storage, transportation, and distribution to end users for transport heating and industrial use can defy the laws of economics and the H2 at the pump, cooker, or steelmaking plant arrives at an affordable and viable price.
4. Where deluded Governments subsidise the process from taxpayer revenues.

Without further ado here's Kawasaki's video. That's not to say the world will not see a proliferation of liquid hydrogen vessels like the Suiso Frontier shipping "green" or "blue" hydrogen around the world just like we have the trade in Liquid Natural Gas now.



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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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Teesside in the Hydrogen News Again.

Go and hire a Toyota Mirai from Enterprise at Teesside International Airport...

Hydrogen fuel station serves Enterprise cars as part of £2.5m trial


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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

I like the sound of that! :)
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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What is St Helens most famous for :?:

Its the location of the only public house called "The Pickled Egg" in the entire world, yes in the entire world.

But it also has ordered a few Hydrogen/electric hybrid Refuse Collection Vehicles.

St Helens Council introduce first hydrogen refuse trucks


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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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over in Carcassonne
Hydrogen-powered Citroen Dispatch achieves 248-mile range in trials


The vehicle uses an electric motor for propulsion, which can be powered by an on board battery pack or the hydrogen fuel cell.

A complete refuel takes six minutes from a 350 bar pump, while stations fitted with a 700 bar pump can refill in half that time. The van’s 10.5kWh battery – providing a 31 mile backup power supply if the hydrogen tanks run out – can be charged using a domestic socket.
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by Gibbo2286 »

That Suez Group run council refuse collection in some UK cities, maybe we'll get Hydrogen dust carts. :)
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

Gibbo2286 wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 10:59 That Suez Group run council refuse collection in some UK cities, maybe we'll get Hydrogen dust carts. :)
Have you got a lot of Hydrogen dust down your way then Gibbo? :-D
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!