The Hydrogen Thread

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myglaren
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by myglaren »

Just stuff I have spotted elsewhere. I remain extremely sceptical as to the viability of hydrogen.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

To keep it visual.

Here we are at Cranfield with the first flight of Zero Avia's Hydrogen-Electric Plane. Electric aircraft propulsion specialist ZeroAvia have recently announced having raised $24.3 million (€20.5Mn) in a new round of funding for hydrogen plane development. The fresh capital comes from new investor British Airways as well as several existing financiers, including Breakthrough Energy Ventures and Shell.

Music By John Cage, Audio by Marcel Marceau



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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

ZeroAvia couple of more pics showing their plans...
temp3.jpg
temp2.JPG
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mickthemaverick
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

Here is a fairly recent (February 2021) summation of the Chinese Power Industries movement towards Hydrogen: :)

https://energyiceberg.com/chinese-power ... -hydrogen/

Peter.N.
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by Peter.N. »

I like the 'Wasserstoff' thats easily translatable. :-D

Peter

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Not, fossil fuel steam reformation which currently produces 95% of the world's hydrogen, not piped hydrogen through the gas mains to your home, but I do think Karl­-Heinz Tetzlaff with his "Wasserstoff für alle" would be pleased with this Australian Development.

Yes it is a bloke talking, yes it does last about 11 minutes, but yes it is informative
Its in a nice little cabinet, it makes hydrogen at home off grid, the hydrogen is stored at low pressures within a metal hydride in neat modules, and released through a fuel cell to make electricity for the home when its needed.

Nice title for the channel "just have a think" and its full of other informative videos. Kicked off with the liquid air range extender.



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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

More flesh on the pioneering Stellantis in the field of H2 Vehicles...previous post in spoiler
Spoiler: show
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 21:33
Crikey Stellantis in the news for innovation, but are they barking up the wrong tree :?:

Yes the date is April 2nd so lets hope the report has gone past the day for reporting rubbish.
from Inside EV's https://insideevs.com/news/498495/stell ... ell-system
The company intends to offer plug-in FCVs.
Stellantis - the automotive group created from the combination of the PSA Group and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) - announced today an all-new mid-power hydrogen fuel cell system architecture.

The company is already engaged in the battery-electric and plug-in hybrid segment, but according to the latest press release, it would like to achieve zero-emission driving, long-range, short refueling time and no compromises in terms of payload by using hydrogen fuel cells. Of course, all in a package available at a reasonable cost. But is it even possible?


Regards Neil
Now the H2 Version of the e-vivaro van is on its way later this year. It would be great if they targeted a particular customer, provided a bit of hydrogen infrastructure, and properly guided the customer through the H2 process.

If you want to produce and sell hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, just like Tesla did with the charging infrastructure when there wasn't one, you have to provide it. Do that and the selling of fuel cell vans will be a reality.

So here is an article from Inside EV's (.de the german version) about the Opel Vivaro e-Hydrogen
Opel Vivaro-e Hydrogen: Fuel cell transporter to arrive in 2021

https://insideevs.de/news/507763/opel-vivaro-hydrogen-brennstoffzelle-2021/
https://insideevs.de/news/507763/opel-vivaro-hydrogen-brennstoffzelle-2021/
Regards Neil

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by Peter.N. »

I suppose that when you consider the cost of extracting, refining and delivering petrol/diesel hydrogen doesn't look quite so bad. The raw material is free is just the energy cost to produce that's expensive.

Peter

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I watched another video in the "Just have a think" series about the energy grid and the critical use of storage within it particularly for the linking up of the massively expanding generation from solar and wind.

One of the properties of hydrogen as a storage medium is its energy density. Of course you have to make it compress it cool it and store it in pressurised tanks all of which consumes energy, but once stored it has another significant property, it can be stored for a long period of time.
temp2.png
Battery storage doesn't have the efficiency loss of making hydrogen, but the current dominant chemistry of Lithium Ion does require use of in demand raw materials, and is better suited to being discharged within relatively short time scales within hours rather than days. Hydrogen can be stored for weeks/months and even provide seasonal storage for excess renewable generation in the summer.

Grid scale storage is happening and is vital to smart grids and a renewables based generation mix. Hydrogen storage, grid scale battery storage, liquid air storage and even V2G storage in electric vehicle batteries will all play their part.



REgards Neil

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Next subject for Just Have a Think and relevant to the recent report of the International Energy Agency.

The International Energy Agency (IEA) says that no new fossil fuel boilers should be sold from 2025 if the world is to achieve net-zero emissions by the middle of this century. Much picked up on by the media including Jeremy Vine on his show at lunchtime today :-D

The UK's own Committee on Climate Change advising Government Policy has been making similar statements. The only element which Government have announced but not as yet legislated for, relates to The Future Home Standard was announced in October 2019 and proposed that gas boilers would be banned from new builds from 2025.



Regards Neil

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

So where do we stand on the potential of safely introducing hydrogen to the gas grid.

This is the pilot project, kicked off at Keele University, and now in process of moving to 600 homes in the North East...real customers/real boilers/real cookers. All gas appliances since 1996 have had to be specified to be able to run on up to 23% Hydrogen content in the gas mix. (Hydrogen content of the old "Town Gas" was up to 50%)
https://hydeploy.co.uk/

First Phase
HyDeploy @ Keele is the first stage of this three stage programme. In October 2019, the UK Health & Safety Executive gave permission to run a live test of blended hydrogen and natural gas on part of the private gas network at Keele University campus in Staffordshire. HyDeploy is the first project in the UK to inject hydrogen into a natural gas network.

Second and Third Phases
As the Keele stage is completed, HyDeploy will move to a larger demonstration on a public network in the North East. After that, HyDeploy will have another large demonstration in the North West. These are designed to test the blend across a range of networks and customers so that the evidence is representative of the UK as a whole. With HSE approval, and success at Keele, these phases will go ahead in the early 2020s.

The longer term goal
Once the evidence has been submitted to Government policy makers, we very much expect hydrogen to take its place alongside other forms of zero carbon energy in meeting the needs of the UK population.
Regards Neil

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

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Peter.N. wrote:
18 May 2021, 00:38
I suppose that when you consider the cost of extracting, refining and delivering petrol/diesel hydrogen doesn't look quite so bad. The raw material is free is just the energy cost to produce that's expensive.

Peter
Opposite my garage was the Butchers Arms pub, the customers would come over buy petrol and moan about the price, my reply "It's cheaper than anything you can buy in there, pumped out of the ground, carried half way round the world, refined and delivered here ready to use for less than five bob a gallon. What you buy in there is UK :) water and a few hops boiled together for five bob a pint.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by Peter.N. »

Five bob eh? Yes, I remember that. :-D

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

In Hydrogen truck news...
Daimler trucks are testing the Mercedes GenH2 Trucks.
temp2.png
Daimler only relies on hydrogen for long-distance trucks, especially if they are multi-day and difficult to plan. A production truck should be able to drive up to 1,000 kilometres or more without a re-fuelling stop.

Currently, the GenH2 is still powered by gaseous hydrogen, but liquid hydrogen is to be used in the series. This has a significantly higher volume-related energy density, which means that the tanks are smaller. And because liquid hydrogen does not require high pressures, the tanks are also significantly lighter. Overall, this leaves more cargo space and more payload.

REgards Neil

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Despite its current, and physical chemistry-bound, energy inefficiency in production, Hydrogen has undoubtedly the ears of policy makers.

Always good to keep up to date. This is what is happening in Fife Scotland. Basically a wind turbine offshore, supplies power to an electrolyser, and the resultant green hydrogen is to be pumped into 300 or so homes for their heating and cooking needs. I'll not fill my post with more words, if you want to read about it its here, or there is a little vid on the project to watch.


Regards Neil