The Hydrogen Thread

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white exec
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by white exec »

That blue chart above contains some suspiciously round (guesstimate?) figures.

The oil and oil-transport industry seem keen to diversify into some not-too-different products, in order to keep their investment in use.

The question remains: why produce and expensively/hazardously lug an intermediate product (hydrogen) around, when you can cleanly deliver electrical energy direct to the end-user?

And, unlike some other gases, hydrogen needs to be cooled to around –250°C for it to liquefy, making transport unavoidably bulky.

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myglaren
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by myglaren »

white exec wrote:
09 May 2021, 07:28
And, unlike some other gases, hydrogen needs to be cooled to around –250°C for it to liquefy, making transport unavoidably bulky.
And very prone to leak!

Mentioned on here somewhere, the A1 was closed for a while, only a mile or so from me due to an hydrogen tanker leaking.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by bobins »

white exec wrote:
09 May 2021, 07:28

The question remains: why produce and expensively/hazardously lug an intermediate product (hydrogen) around, when you can cleanly deliver electrical energy direct to the end-user?

I'd guess it's the same old issues - jobs, money, and the global economy, and they're far more important than the environment 8-[
You disrupt the global economy (with a large scale upheaval) at your peril.
Jobs and money........

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mickthemaverick
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

bobins wrote:
09 May 2021, 09:53



I'd guess it's the same old issues - jobs, money, and the global economy, and they're far more important than the environment 8-[
You disrupt the global economy (with a large scale upheaval) at your peril.
Jobs and money........
How true, the irony is that ignore the environment for long enough and there will be no world, let alone a world economy. There is one Mother you just can't argue with, Mother Nature!! :(

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by Gibbo2286 »

mickthemaverick wrote:
09 May 2021, 10:08
bobins wrote:
09 May 2021, 09:53



I'd guess it's the same old issues - jobs, money, and the global economy, and they're far more important than the environment 8-[
You disrupt the global economy (with a large scale upheaval) at your peril.
Jobs and money........
How true, the irony is that ignore the environment for long enough and there will be no world, let alone a world economy. There is one Mother you just can't argue with, Mother Nature!! :(
The human race has only survived this far by fighting mother nature all the way, she's a nasty piece of work that will wipe you out in a flash in any way possible, famine, fire, drowning, freezing, etc etc. :)

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by Paul-R »

Peter.N. wrote:
08 May 2021, 23:22
I remember them too mick, different firm.
Don't forget the competition - Telefusion.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Nice to keep the thread flowing with a bit of UK Hydrogen News. There is plenty to find, so if you come across any lob it up. We already have trains/buses/jcb's etc, and developments up in Orkney and elsewhere on the storage side etc. and our friends at Riversimple in Llandrindod Wells (who I get newsletters from and have visited once :-D ) stlll plodding on with their RASA fuel cell car, and their H2 pump in Abergavenny.

In UK Hydrogen News (well March as it turns out!)

Part of this announced in March was an £11.2M slice for WrightBus, Ballymena for investment in H2 Buses development.
£54 Million Investment as UK Automotive Industry Accelerates Towards Net-Zero Emissions
Jo Bamford, Wrightbus Executive Chairman, said: “The funding will allow us to realise our ambitions of creating a centre of excellence for zero emission technology in Ballymena, enabling us to produce the next generation of world-leading hydrogen buses at a higher volume and a lower cost than ever before.

“It will safeguard more than 1,000 skilled jobs and will allow us to create more than 3,000 additional jobs over the next 10 years, giving a significant boost to the wider economy in Northern Ireland.”
Hydrogen still has the ear of Government's, and is embedded in their strategies. For the EU's part their strategy's main objective is to rapidly decrease the price of clean hydrogen by rolling out “dedicated gigawatt-scale green hydrogen factories”. At least 4GW of electrolysers would be deployed across the EU by 2024 to reach that objective, with “at least 40 GW” installed by 2030. Clean hydrogen can contribute to reducing emissions “ahead of 2030” and “pave the way for a climate-neutral economy in 2050 by replacing fossil fuels in hard-to-decarbonise sectors” of the economy, such as steelmaking and chemicals.
"In transport, hydrogen is also a promising option where electrification is more difficult. For example in local city buses, commercial fleets or specific parts of the rail network. Heavy-duty vehicles including coaches, special purpose vehicles, and long-haul road freight could also be decarbonised by using hydrogen as a fuel. Hydrogen fuel-cell trains could be extended and hydrogen could be used as a fuel for maritime transport on inland waterways and short-sea shipping.

In the long term, hydrogen can also become an option to decarbonise the aviation and maritime sector, through the production of liquid synthetic kerosene or other synthetic fuels."

REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 09 May 2021, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

Paul-R wrote:
09 May 2021, 11:25
Peter.N. wrote:
08 May 2021, 23:22
I remember them too mick, different firm.
Don't forget the competition - Telefusion.
I've just got the inevitable result--- confusion!! :-D

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

H2Teeside

BP plans UK’s largest(blue) hydrogen project

North Sea on the doorstep, long pipe, and the reforming of natural gas turns into blue hydrogen, and the CO2 gets pumped out for a burial under the sea bed. Also missed this in March.
BP have announcced that it is developing plans for the UK’s largest blue hydrogen production facility, targeting 1GW of hydrogen production by 2030. The project would capture and send for storage up to two million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO₂) per year, equivalent to capturing the emissions from the heating of one million UK households¹.

The proposed development, H2Teesside, would be a significant step in developing ‎bp’s hydrogen business and make a major contribution to the UK Government’s target of developing 5GW of hydrogen production by 2030.
The nice pic goes on POTD


Regards Neil

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white exec
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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by white exec »

Jo Bamford . . . Government's ear . . .
Join the dots.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

So I have arrived at this point reasonably well-informed on stuff, and an adequate performer at University Challenge without knowing what JCB stood for.

Joseph Cyril Bamford of course. Never made the connection with Jo Bamford at Wrightbus, heir apparent apparently.

So might as well keep the thread on topic with a H2 JCB.

More loud soundtrack, I think such things have already been 101'ed


Regards neil

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by white exec »

While wearing the detective's hat, try JCB and CCHQ. Goes back a long way.

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by mickthemaverick »

Steve posted an interesting piece on a new method of Hydrogen production which I think needs a link from here:
viewtopic.php?p=685266#p685266 :)

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by myglaren »

Are Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Finally—Finally!—Ready For Prime Time?
New developments mean the “fuel of the future’s” future may be fast approaching.

Motortrend
I've subscribed to the theory that "hydrogen is the fuel of the future (and always will be)" for most of my 30 years on this beat, but a confluence of recent developments suggests maybe we're nearing a tipping point for the universe's smallest known molecule.

Accelerated development of fuel cells for use in heavy-duty trucking promises to boost infrastructure and bring the economies of scale needed to hasten light-duty fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) adoption. Proliferation of renewable energy is increasing demand for ways to store surplus grid power, which can be done using hydrogen, and a novel means of inexpensively producing green hydrogen is emerging...

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Re: The Hydrogen Thread

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Keep them coming Steve, two sides to every coin, and plenty developments happening. Too many, and too much policy traction for H2 not to play a role.

Someone who did much scientifically in the field of hydrogen and fuel cells was Karl­-Heinz Tetzlaff . His vision was a Hydrogen grid "Wasserstoff für alle" (hydrogen for all), all forms of energy converted to Hydrogen, and generation of electricity at point of use by fuel cells.

Here's a useful little one page summary, and right now, still seems a bit too radical to be adopted and the question arises, how do you make enough, and how do you keep it in the pipelines, and what price the fuel cell generators at everyone's home.

http://www.green-gas.net/k-h/index.html

REgards Neil