C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

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tredy
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by tredy »

Hi Marc! I'm about to change the ATF on my C5 is there anyway you can check what gearbox it has and maybe other tech details like engine model/code...the most techs details about the car you can get out? the vin is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Thank you !!

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so I’ll email details to you tomorrow of the full specs. But you have the AM6 6 speed Auto box on this. Your vehicle meets Euro 5 standards.

If changing gearbox oil, you need JWS 3324 for this gearbox.

As mentioned, I’ll email you the full specs tomorrow.

The official guidance on changing the oil is in my post here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58731&hilit=60°+C+m ... 15#p553039

You can only change 3 litres at a time as you cannot drain the torque converter fully. All details are in the post.

marsalek
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by marsalek »

Hi guys, after changing my ATF in the AM6-2 I think I can hear a slight whining noise, related to engine speed. At higher revs it disappears. I used TOTAL Fluidmatic MV LV oil:
http://www.lubs-products-database.total ... 2500/22929
Based on the datasheet it meets JWS3324 standard.

Has anyone used this oil? Any experience with this one oil?

Apart of that, the autobox is shifting so smoothly, that you nearly don´t notice it :-)

Regards, Karel

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Sloppysod
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by Sloppysod »

I have used this oil twice now, no problem like you describe. Did you follow the instructions to the letter, as in do the level check at the end with the engine running.!
Just make sure I would follow the first and last steps again, add half a litre and drain to the level, don't forget a new seal. If nothing else it will give you a satisfaction that the level is correct.
Just as a note, after my last oil change the gearbox took some time to settle afterwards. 10-20 miles or so.
Good luck

marsalek
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by marsalek »

Hi Sloppysod,

thank you for your advice. The car was not exactly level during the oil change, but during driving it is also not always level, so there must be some margin in the amount of oil :-) But when I prepare everything for checking the oil level anew, I can already do one additional oil change :-) That sounds to be a good idea :-)

Regards
Karel

davygr22
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by davygr22 »

Hi folks,
I have run three C5 X7's, the first being a 2.7HDi and the later two 3.0HDi's. I have never been a fan of the 'sealed for life' idea on an automatic transmission & as these Aisin Warner boxes fitted to PSA Group vehicles (& incidentally various Volvos/Saabs etc) do suffer from faults in the hydraulic valve block, I always did a transmission flush upon acquiring all these cars & then subsequently a 3 litre change every 20k.
Initially back when I ran the 2.7, it was quite difficult to obtain information on aftermarket fluids(the price from Citroen was crazy!!) but i eventually sourced suitable fluid from Opie Oils. Earlier contributors are correct in that there are two different versions of the AM6 transmission fitted to C5 X7's(and C6's for that matter) :

All 2.7 HDi C5 X7 have the Euro 4 version - AM6 & use JWS 3309 specification fluid.
All 3.0 Hdi C5 X7 have the Euro 5 version - AM6-2 Euro 5 Norm & require JWS 3324 fluid(PSA official part number 9734 R7 - very expensive from Citroen)

Through quite a lot of research I discovered that Motul Oils supply a transmission fluid with the precise specification stated as PSA 9734 R7 AW-1 - this is the only one I have found aftermarket thus far which specifies exactly the PSA reference(no doubt there may be others).
The fluid type is' MOTUL ATF VI Low Viscosity' - data sheet spec PSA 9734R7 AW-1(website www.motul.com - search transmission fluids, find ATF VI & click on the spec/data sheet for clarification).
This is available from Opie Oils(www.opieoils.co.uk) at £16.99 per litre - they give 10% discount to Citroen Car Club Members .

In relation to why there is a difference with these transmissions/fluids, I believe it all relates to PSA getting these vehicle up to Euro 5 emission standards. There are differences within the two transmission types, particularly with the hydraulic valve block - the replacement part number for the earlier Euro 4 version is 2570 E4 & the later Euro 5 version(sometimes referred to as the 'generation 2' variant) is 2570 J4 or 98072952 80??( unclear here why there are two different numbers listed - best to check your own VIN with a Citroen Agent parts reference system).

Hope this helps !!

mmatin
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by mmatin »

Hi Marc,

Can you confirm for my car VIN: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff], Euro 5, JWS 3324, part no. 9734R7.
Thanks in advance!

Mario

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Mario, yes JWS 3324 for your AM6 Auto, as it is Euro 5 and 9734R7 is the correct PSA part number for the oil - confirmed via VIN. :-D

mmatin
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by mmatin »

Thanks alot Marc!

I requsted offer for changing oil in my AM6 from 6 Citroen dealers and so far I got two offers. The funny part is, offer from first Citroen dealer is, 1 l of oil 113 €, job 70 €, total for changing 3 l of oil with job 409 €. Offer from second Citroen dealer is, 1 l of oil 16 €, job 58 €, total for changing 7 l of oil is 170 €. I was suprice when I saw offer from second dealer so ask them how they change 7 l of oil and what oil they use, original PSA or some other. I'm still waiting for answer. Also still waiting 4 offers to come from other deales. I can wait to see prices.
Just to compare prices for other parts, timing belt set with water pump price at first dealer is 273 €, at second dealer is 138 €.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It would be a lot cheaper to do it yourself if you have a Lexia with Diagbox to reset the oil counter.

It’s easy enough to do. The procedure is on this forum. You can only change 3 Litres at a time as you can’t drain the torque converter, so 4 Litres stays in the system. It therefore needs to be changed about 3 times over a few months to basically get it nearly all changed.

Cit fan 151
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by Cit fan 151 »

Is it crucial to reset oil counter? I had service done by an auto transmission specialist but I am not aware that they reset the oil counter (or reset adaptives)?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, it is very important because the gearbox adapts its operation for the age and quality of oil / mileage travelled etc. If you don't do it, then the ECU will modify its programme to take account of old oil. The oil can burn and will have impurities over time - the ECU takes account of this and adapts the programme. At some point apart from the degradation of performance, the counter will reach its lifetime limit earlier and throw up some faults. Resetting the oil counter to zero tells the ECU it has fresh new oil and is stated in the official documentation.

Xantippa
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by Xantippa »

I´ve used 3309 over two years on my HDi240 which should use 3324 without any problems. Oil was changed fully at automatic transmission specialist and we also discussed wether it´s necessary to use that newer more expensive oil but they told me that older oil works just as fine. No diagnostic device was used to tell car about oil change. Changing all the oil costed 200€ here in Finland (at many places that "flush" and "wash" gearbox price is much higher, around 400-500€), but this specialist said using washingfluid is unneccessary. They repair and reinforce a lot of automatic gearboxes and have customers all around Finland so I trust that they know what they are doing, I think this shop is one of the best or the best automatic transmission specialist in Finland.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Appreciate what you are saying Marko, but I think it better to comply with the manufacturer requirements of the correct oil type and of resetting the oil counter as required. I think the manufacturer's of the gearboxes know better than an independent what is required. The procedures are there for a reason and not doing the oil counter reset will very likely cause problems down the line.

DickyC5
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Re: C5 X7: JWS 3309 vs. JWS 3324

Post by DickyC5 »

The shifting operations may be different between Euro4 and Euro5 transmissions i.e the TCM may allow for more or less slip in clutch packs and TC clutch hence a requirement for a different spec ATF.

I went with the JWS-3324 and used a local specialist that use a flushing machine and 10l of ATF was required.