Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
29 Dec 2020, 14:52
...the homes are horrendously expensive to heat and cook with electricity by comparison to those who have gas.
I wonder what the pricing and tax regime for gas will be medium term. The gas companies will want to offload their production at a price which still makes the choice between gas and electricity come down in favour of gas, but I am speculating that just as with diesel which used to be very much cheaper than petrol, then became more expensive, over the coming years burning gas in domestic homes, will become more expensive than the "greener" alternative of electricity.1 . If it doesn't then nothing is going to change very quickly from the status quo.

In my opinion there is too much political capital and prevailing science invested in the process of change to allow that to happen.

Regards Neil
1 yes...electricity is only as "green" as how it is generated :-D

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CitroJim
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
29 Dec 2020, 14:52

Many use oil boilers or still have coal fires with back boilers, some use wood burners. all of which fall foul of the greenies obsession with emissions.
Domestic lump coal is being phased out and banned, I understand, from 2023 and likewise 'wet' wood...

The heritage railways are up in arms about it as although they have an exception from DEFRA to carry on burning cola the cost is going to skyrocket as all must be imported and as there's no bulk market left, except for the steelworks, there's no economy of scale to keep costs reasonable...

Bang on top of Covid, it could spell the end for some heritage railways... Some are already struggling...

My boiler and gas central heating is nearing the end of its life and I plan to renew it next year along with a big (expensive) full renovation of my house...

I'm in a dilemma now over what to go for. Electric is tempting as it should be trouble-free and very reliable.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

I imagine this to be your ideal house layout Jim? :-D
Own work
Own work

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

CitroJim wrote:
29 Dec 2020, 16:15
I'm in a dilemma now over what to go for. Electric is tempting as it should be trouble-free and very reliable.
In England there is an absolute dog's breakfast of over-complicated assistance towards moving away from gas, and more than that they are still doing the complete opposite by giving grants for gas boilers and biomass burners. Assistance towards air source heat pumps the "new technology" is tied up in the Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive. If it takes more than a page to explain (and it does) its too complicated :-D
Have to say not really worth a look unless you want to come away confused but the FAQ's are here
https://www.government-grants.co.uk/dom ... ntive-faqs
Hopefully when you come to do your major works they will have lined up their grants with their strategies, and streamlined the process and made it simple. My view grants paid to approved installers just rack up the price of installations. Here's a heat pump installation, looks a 1hr job at the most :-D . It's the Heat pump itself that needs "subsidising" until volume manufacture brings the price down. Looks less complicated than a gas boiler anyway.
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
19 Sep 2020, 18:25

ImageImage

Regards Neil

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CitroJim
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by CitroJim »

Thanks Neil :) Looks a bit of a dog's breakfast at the moment :twisted:

I will study more carefully at the opposite end of the day, my brain has already gone to bed!!

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CitroJim
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by CitroJim »

mickthemaverick wrote:
29 Dec 2020, 17:13
I imagine this to be your ideal house layout Jim? :-D

Image
That looks perfect Mick :lol: Love it!

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myglaren
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by myglaren »

I have difficulty imagining where a heat pump might fit in my house. The gas boiler is in a cupboard in the sitting room and over the staircase. Which backs on to my neighbours staircase.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Its difficult finding the chapter and verse on changes in the pipeline, but it would appear that the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme to be replaced.

Its here if you want to read it
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... arbon-heat

Summary
We're seeking views on options for the future support for low carbon heat, beyond the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).
This consultation ran from
midday on 28 April 2020 to 11:45pm on 7 July 2020
Consultation description
Heating of homes, businesses and industry is responsible for a third of the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions, and decarbonisation of heat is one of the biggest challenges we face in meeting our climate targets.

This consultation sets out proposals for:
a Green Gas Support Scheme (GGSS): increasing the proportion of green gas in the grid through support for biomethane injection
a Clean Heat Grant: support for heat pumps and in certain circumstances biomass, through an upfront capital grant to help address the barrier of upfront cost
budget control and financial management of the spending proposals for green gas and buildings technologies
....and participant compliance
I read "Clean Heat Grant: Support for Heat Pumps through an upfront capital grant" Sounds promisingly more simple than the feed-in tariffs over a number of years under the previous RHI arrangements.
The green gas support scheme/bio methane sounds like tiny impact measure, and a backward step perpetuating the gas grid.

End product of this should be, I want a heat pump, up front grant is available, and its installation and running costs are less than gas.

Regards Neil

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

myglaren wrote:
29 Dec 2020, 19:51
I have difficulty imagining where a heat pump might fit in my house. The gas boiler is in a cupboard in the sitting room and over the staircase. Which backs on to my neighbours staircase.
See my pic at Craster Steve. They sit outside the dwelling, just like aircon units
Image
Regards Neil

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myglaren
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by myglaren »

Looks very small. I still have difficulty seeing how it could be implemented without pulling half the house to pieces. Even replacing the boiler with a condensing boiler is looking very problematic.

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bobins
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

All the heat pumps really need is a secure mounting point (wall / ground), and 'In' pipe, an 'Out' pipe, power supply, control line, and a small drain pipe. They do require a through-put of forced air, and so can be noisy if put in the wrong place i.e. right under a window.
They are, to oversimplify it, fridge-freezers running back to front.

My main concern with the direction of travel towards 'all electric' is that we are at the mercy of price controls to modify behaviour. In an open market, if you knew the price of electricity was only going to go ever upwards with the intention of regulating your use of it via taxation or consumption regulation, you could say: "Stuff that for a game of soldiers, I'm going to use a different form of heating". If your (and the wider population's) choice is limited to electricity, .......or electricity, .......or electricity - then you've been got by the 'short and curlies'. 8-[
It's normally accepted that 'choice is good' for consumers. It would appear that's not going to be the case with your type energy supply.

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

All the major energy suppliers do Gas and Electricity and compete for customers on the basis of price, and a bewildering range of tariffs which make just such comparisons difficult. If gas drops out of the equation and that currently is most definitely the direction of travel, the energy suppliers will still compete for customers on price for electricity (in theory!)

Yes relying on on a bit of competition between global energy companies would be like expecting OPEC in times gone by to compete on Oil Prices, and not occasionally have a grip on the UK motorist's 'short and curlies'.:-D

Is there another direction of travel? Depends on your view.

I suppose keeping exploring, drilling, fracking, extracting, processing, distributing, natural gas or a natural gas mix with a little bit of bio-methane/ or natural gas +20% hydrogen to burn in homes, business as usual could be an alternative but unlikely direction.

REgards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

We could always promote the replacement of electricity with the internal combustion engine :-D



Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Gibbo2286 »

We could return to coal gas. :-D Those old gasometers are scenery enhancers for the industrial history buffs.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
30 Dec 2020, 11:15
We could return to coal gas. :-D Those old gasometers are scenery enhancers for the industrial history buffs.
Never mind industrial history, The Oval has never been the same!! :)