Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The makers of Heat pumps, Air Source and Ground Source, and Insulation are set for a bit of a "boom", and the makers of Gas Boilers, a significant scaling down.

Consultation has recently ended (Febnruary 7th 2020) on proposals for "Future Homes Standards" amendments of the building regs in relation to Part L Conservation of Fuel and Power, and Part F Ventilation.

The whole gubbins is here
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -dwellings

The bit about future low carbon heating for new homes is this bit
Heat pumps
We anticipate that the installation of heat pumps, particularly air-to-water and air-to-air heat pumps, will play a major role in delivering low carbon heat for homes built to the Future Homes Standard. Heat pumps come with the same low-carbon benefits as direct electric heating, but can deliver heat much more efficiently, which can help to overcome the affordability and grid-resource constraints associated with direct electric heating.

However, the installation of heat pumps in the UK is at a level much lower than that necessary to meet the ambition of the Future Homes Standard. The CCC states that there is a need to establish heat pumps as a mass market solution for low carbon heating and there are opportunities to start this with new build properties. The Committee also recommends that ‘new homes should not be connected to the gas grid from 2025’.

This has informed our thinking on how we should frame the Future Homes Standard.
Heat networks
Heat networks (sometimes referred to as district heating) are a distribution system that takes heat from a centralised source and delivers it to a number of differentbuildings. These heat networks also form an important part of our plan in the future of low carbon heat, in particular in cities and high-density areas. Heat networks can decarbonise more easily compared to most other heat sources because new technologies can be added to the system with little disruption to individual householders. They provide a unique opportunity to exploit larger scale, renewable and recovered heat sources that can’t be accessed at an individual building level. Heat networks also provide system benefits such as thermal storage and reducing the energy demand of the grid at peak times. It is estimated by the CCC that around 18% of UK heat will need to come from heat networks by 2050 if the UK is to meet its carbon targets cost-effectively.

We expect that heat networks will have a strong role to play in delivering low carbon heat to new homes in future.
Direct electric heating
We anticipate that direct electric heating will play a minor role in our plan for the future of low carbon heat. Direct electric heating is a well-established technology that produces heat through a near-100% efficient process, with no emissions at the point of use. Despite this, direct electric heaters can be very expensive to run, and if deployed at scale may have a significant effect on the national grid. Under some circumstances it may be an appropriate technology in applications where heat demand is particularly low, for instance where a home is built to the very highest fabric standards.
Other technologies
Other technologies, such as hydrogen, may have a role to play in heating systems of the future. However, for new homes, we anticipate that heat pumps and heat networks (and to a lesser extent direct electric heating) will be the principal means of producing low-carbon heat for buildings built to the Future Homes Standard.
Regards Neil

andy5
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by andy5 »

I think that heat pumps will still work out more expensive, due to the higher capital cost, and while there is such a difference between gas and electricity unit price.

The ratio used to be 3 gas to 1 electricity, then 4 to 1 for a while, and seems to be around 5 at the moment (13.3 to 2.5 on the new tariff here)

There are gas powered heat pumps, but most of them are industrial or public space sized. I've just been reading about a smaller one, 18 kW, that would be fine in some homes, uses 38% less gas than an ordinary boiler, and cheaper than electric ground source, but £6000 or £8000 to save £200 a year isn't immediately attractive, could be worthwhile on a bigger place than this though.

Edit: I just calculated the bill as if the gas had been replaced by electric heat pump, using one third of the units. £239 a year more expensive.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Last year we had a boiler kaput situation requiring sorted ASAP, and just did the relatively simple thing, find a gas safe reg installer, and get a new gas boiler.

Changing from a gas boiler to a heat pump never even occured. Only just started out of curiosity finding out about heat pumps, following reading that for new homes, most of the eggs appear to be being put in the heat pump basket.

If anyone wants to chip in with the benefit of their own knowledge, all the better.
Renewable Heating Initiative
I did come across the Renewable Heating Initiative designed to assist with installing such things as ground source and air source heat pumps in existing domestic dwellings. Make your own mind up with this lengthy PDF from OfGem. I have left it not much wiser, but it certainly confirmed my view that, if you can make a scheme hideously and unnecessarily complicated and bureaucratic, government agencies will do it.

Would a simple "grant scheme" explainable on one side of A4, not be better?

52 Page Essential Guide for Applicants.Domestic Renewable Heating Initiative

There are other "essential Guides" including the bizarre "Assignment of Rights" whatever that is.

25 Page Essential Guide to Assignment of Rights For investors and applicants who want to enter into an assignment of Rights agreement on the Domestic Renewable Heating Initiative
Is anyone going to wade through all of that, and plump for a heat pump to replace their current gas boiler, or go down the path of least resistance and go for gas again.

REgards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by myglaren »

Years ago now one of my school friends and a bit of an inventor, worked as an engineer on the oil rigs, was determined to install a heat pump with pipes buried in his front garden (huge).
His wife didn't look too enthusiastic at having her garden churned over.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Must admit when talking of heat pumps I did imagine a fair bit of civil engineering in the garden, but these air source heat pumps look like a simple cabinet. They are a bit of a "reverse fridge"


Image

Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

My mate's got one of those "air heat recovery pump*" thingies in his house. It was a fairly recently new build and it's the sort of place where you can heat it on the equivalent of half an old lightbulb. Trouble is, it's so well insulated with tin foil and other materials that you get naff-all mobile phone signal indoors. Mind you.... that could actually be a plus-point :-D

* - something to do with putting waste heat from the kitchen and bathrooms through a heat exchanger in the loft.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

bobins wrote:
16 Feb 2020, 17:15
My mate's got one of those "air heat recovery pump" thingies in his house. It was a fairly recently new build and it's the sort of place where you can heat it on the equivalent of half an old lightbulb. Trouble is, it's so well insulated with tin foil and other materials that you get naff-all mobile phone signal indoors. Mind you.... that could actually be a plus-point :-D
Most mobile network operators supply signal extenders where you have an antenna outside the "insulated" area which takes the signal and transmits it inside the area and vice versa, variously called repeaters or extenders but you need to be sure that the antenna to repeater is hard wired!! :)

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by white exec »

We don't run a dedicated air-source heat pump, but, like most of our rural neighbours here, run several (3) 'split unit' air conditioners, of which two - living area and main bedroom - get regular use. Apart from some cooling during the summer, they also work well as heating units, working 'in reverse'.

They are each capable of producing around 3000W of heat inside, but from an electrical consumption of about 900W. Fit that into an "off peak" tariff that gives half-price electricity 22:00—12:00h daily, and the maths kinda make sense.

Not the cheapest, and we do use a 13kW-capable log burner in the winter, which heats both the main floor and an upstairs bedroom (ducted warm air). There's also underfloor electrical heating (all of our main living floor, in seven separate zones) – a giant storage heater, floor 30cm thick. It works, but the cost of using it is exactly the same as our burning wood. Wood (old olive, in the main) is €60/m³, and we get through 4-5m³ of it each winter. Carbon-neutral? Up to a point.

Solar heating here is an option, but around €2k for a panel unit and 100L tank. Would provide DHW, but not CH. A CH-capable installation way out of our budget.

Solar heated water can be done 'on the cheap' by a hundred metres or so of 25mm black polythene pipe, laid out (or coiled) where the sun can get at it. Often used to put heat into swimming pools. The home-made shower next to our pool has six vertical 42mm copper pipes, 2m long amd black-painted, built into the south side of it. Free HW showers when in the pool, or doggie washing.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Gibbo2286 »

We're already getting the 'double glazing cold call' types trying to sell us heat pumps at extortionate prices with promises of huge saving on our heating costs. :evil:

I think I've got my place down to as cheap as it can be for now, all double glazed, roof fully insulated, cavity walls done and solar panels on the roof earning a few bob.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Time for Liverpool Business News to make its debut on the French Car Forum.
Essar, Unilever and Pilkington secure £13m for hydrogen projects
Well I've heard of Unilever
Unilever’s Port Sunlight will be the first meaningful use of hydrogen in a commercial scale boiler.
and Pilkington
In St Helens, the use of hydrogen in the glass-making process will be a global first.
but who are
Essar?
Well they are part of an global multinational of Indian origin and produce 16% of the UK's Transport fuels. 10 points for a picture of one of their filling stations :-D
I think we will hear a lot about carbon capture from the fossil fuel industry, and a bit of a push towards "clean hydrogen" (from fossil fuels of course, but capturing 95% of the carbon in the process). and a push for its use to displace natural gas in industrial processes.

Regards Neil

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

Can I claim 10 points for a link to pictures of all of them? It seems they are widespread but none too close to me but the March Meander may yield an opportunity!! :-D
https://www.essaroil.co.uk/our-forecourts/

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 17:14
Can I claim 10 points for a link to pictures of all of them? It seems they are widespread but none too close to me but the March Meander may yield an opportunity!! :-D
https://www.essaroil.co.uk/our-forecourts/
Course you can Mick, but I reckon I have a very good chance of taking a snap of this one.....probably passed it many times......

Chester Road Stanley Co Durham
looks like I will have to do an original, seeing as they are far to precious about an image of their petrol station. Understandable.....what if people started printing T-shirts, or mugs with the image of Chester Road Filling Station Stanley.......

It was formerly a Jet station when the google street image cameras passed in March 2019.

Only 1.7 miles from Beamish Museum for those wanting to combine a visit to Beamish with photographing a petrol station in Stanley :-D


Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 19 Feb 2020, 17:55, edited 2 times in total.

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myglaren
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by myglaren »

Image is blocked Neil.
Still Jet on Streetview.

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by mickthemaverick »

Ironically I drove past this one on Saturday after visiting friends in Streatley. I used to use it a lot when I lived in Leagrave 15 years ago but I think it was either Texaco or Esso in those days!!:
Sundon Park<br />Sundon Park Road, Luton
Sundon Park
Sundon Park Road, Luton
forecourts21.jpg (11.57 KiB) Viewed 39 times
Sundon Park
Sundon Park Road, Luton

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myglaren
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by myglaren »

Just nipped up to Stanley and took a pikshure :roll:
Essar image.
Essar image.
chester-1.jpg (25.22 KiB) Viewed 34 times