Energy Matters Global and Domestic

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

white exec wrote:
18 Dec 2019, 20:03
but it allows vast amounts of power to be called on within seconds by CEGB, ........
This paragraph, which I have put in the spoiler and nicked from wiki maps out what happened to the CEGB....

....theres nothing like a clear plan to move on to a better arrangement to manage the UK's energy generation, and believe me the wiki paragraph reads (to me) like anything but a clear plan :-D
Spoiler: show
The electricity market in the UK was built upon the break-up of the CEGB into four companies in the 1990s. Its generation (or upstream) activities were transferred to three generating companies, 'PowerGen', 'National Power', and 'Nuclear Electric' (later 'British Energy', eventually 'EDF Energy'); and its transmission (or downstream) activities to the 'National Grid Company'.[9][10]

The shares in National Grid were distributed to the regional electricity companies prior to their own privatisation in 1990. PowerGen and National Power were privatised in 1991, with 60% stakes in each company sold to investors, the remaining 40% being held by the UK government. The privatisation process was initially delayed as it was concluded that the 'earlier decided nuclear power plant assets in National Power' would not be included in the private National Power. A new company was formed, Nuclear Electric, which would eventually own and operate the nuclear power assets, and the nuclear power stations were held in public ownership for a number of years.[11]

In 1995, the government sold its 40% stakes, and the assets of Nuclear Electric and Scottish Nuclear were both combined and split. The combination process merged operations of UK's eight most advanced nuclear plants – seven Advanced Gas Cooled Reactor (AGR) and one Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) – into a new private company founded in 1996, 'British Energy' (now 'EDF Energy').[12][13] The splitting process created a separate company in 1996 called 'Magnox Electric' to hold the older Magnox reactors, later combined with BNFL.

Although electricity privatisation began in 1990, the CEGB continued to exist until the Central Electricity Generating Board (Dissolution) Order 2001, a statutory instrument, came into force on 9 November 2001.[14]

Powergen is now E.ON UK, owned by the German utility company E.ON, who then further split to form Uniper, who own the majority of the former E.On conventional power generation. National Power split into a UK business, 'Innogy', now 'RWE npower', owned by the German utility company RWE, and an international business, 'International Power', now Engie Energy International and owned by the French company Engie.
er....will the person in charge of UK Energy Generation please step forward?

REgards Neil

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bobins
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
18 Dec 2019, 21:37

er....will the person in charge of UK Energy Generation please step forward?

REgards Neil
I think they daren't step forward for fear of being privatised then sold off to a foreign company :lol:

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white exec
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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by white exec »

Sorry, CEGB???, silly me, Neil, I meant National Grid (or whatever they're calling themselves this week).

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

In the old days we used to have the NEEB for electricity, and the NGB round here for Gas. I still refer to them as the Electricity Board, or the Gas Board. No idea what they are called now couldnt even guess :-D

REgards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Paul-R »

bobins wrote:
18 Dec 2019, 20:53
The concept of a nationwide 'Black Start' was always (and still is to some extent) and extremely concerning situation. I can well imagine that the 'men in suits' have spent countless hours pondering over that scenario...... 8-[
We came very close to it last August when two power stations went off-line at the same time. One more power station down and we would have been in the dark ages!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49300025

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Anyone heard of Corrie Glas?
Can't seem to find out if the first "sod" has been cut yet.

Latest analysis I can find comes from 2018, and its a bit of a long read again, but does highlight some of the economic and logistical arguments of the scale and operation of such a pumped storage system in that location, its practicality for a increasingly renewables based grid to generate revenue, and its connection to the National Grid.

http://euanmearns.com/coire-glas-the-ra ... o-storage/

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by andy5 »

Mandrake wrote:
02 Dec 2019, 16:46
A home charger only costs a few hundred quid, a 50kW Rapid charger costs around £20k to install not including extra grid provisioning or works required to bring power to the unit if it is not already nearby. And then there is a maintenance contract to cover repairs and maintenance and you also have eventual replacement to consider when it becomes too old or obsolete. (10-15 years is the predicted lifespan of a rapid charger unit from memory for depreciation and asset control purposes)

So the time to pay back investment is surprisingly long even if utilisation is high. So unlike some EV drivers I don't begrudge rapid charging being more expensive than the electricity only cost of charging at home - they need a return on investment otherwise it's not a viable business.
Occasionally the time to decommissioning and removal will be shorter.

Not far from here there used to be a couple of Tesla chargers.

Then they disappeared. Only about two and a half years.

I found a discussion on a Tesla owners forum, whingeing about this, speculating - it would later turn out correctly - that soon there would be more ubiquitous chargers for a wider range of cars.

Quite a few of them, indeed perhaps most of those posting, were incredibly snobby about it. You wouldn't get the impression they were interested in any possible environmental gains, or any co-solidarity with fellow electric car users, but more in their own self-defined elite status.

So sometimes Tesla the firm or Tesla the drivers might fall out with site owners for whatever reasons ...

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Mandrake »

Well in Tesla's case they're installing Superchargers as a loss leader to get people to buy their cars, the Supercharger network is not as far as anyone knows, a profit centre for them even 7 years after they started installing it...

In the early days they had to do it (especially in the US) as there just weren't any other rapid charger networks around and people wouldn't buy their cars if they didn't do it. Nowadays there is still an advantage to the Supercharger network in the UK because while there are many less sites than other networks, the sites are well positioned, are very reliable and have many, many units per site, and are 125kW, vs the 50kW that is still typical from other networks.

Eventually that advantage will be gone though. Other networks are starting to roll out 150kW and eventually 350kW, and eventually we'll see sites with lots of rapids at the same site and they will be well maintained and reliable. (one would hope!) When that day comes there won't really be any advantage to the Supercharger network so I think 10 years from now it will become irrelevant or maybe even go away to be replaced by generic charging points that work with all cars.

It's not for no reason that the "mass market" Model 3 has adopted the industry standard CCS connector for rapid charging.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I have put up on the "Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure" thread a link to TESLA's recent announcement of V3 Superchargers in London.

REgards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Here's some visuals to lighten up a wordy thread....

Like the solar panel "flowers"



Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Interesting story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51233444

but......rather than put the first one out of the way in the usual suspects, west cumbria/wales maybe Northumberland, where no-one can see it and appreciate its beauty and safety, what a publicity coup it would be worldwide if it was given pride of place, with one of the great names of British Engineering tastefully tattooed on its silvered sides......

Right in the middle of Hyde Park.....

That's when the technology will have really arrived. :-D

REgards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Well Rolls Royce's little prefab nuclear reactors ^^^^^ fail to capture the imagination.

How about a bit of tidal on the North Coast of Scotland

https://simecatlantis.com/projects/meygen/

Must admit I didnt imagine harvesting the reliable tidal energy would involve underwater "windmills"
Elektrek reports here

https://ww.electrek.co/2020/02/04/egeb- ... d-in-2019/

"MeyGen Ltd, the developer of the world’s largest tidal energy project, completed the longest-ever run of continuous generation by a multi-megawatt tidal turbine, powering nearly 4,000 homes in 2019, with 24.7 GWh. MeyGen sits off Scotland’s northern coast, on the ocean floor, near the island of Stroma.£
Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by andy5 »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
05 Feb 2020, 00:34
Must admit I didnt imagine harvesting the reliable tidal energy would involve underwater "windmills"
I did, as someone I know was involved in development of a previous project, which was later taken over by Siemens and then by Atlantis

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaGen

https://www.rechargenews.com/technology ... 2-1-644606

That Electrek article you posted suggests the UK reckoned in 2013 that 20% of UK energy can come from tidal.

I think that may be conservative; I'd heard earlier of 30% or possibly even up to 40%, so I'm a little surprised this hasn't gone faster

Advantages of this over wind and the lagoon version of tidal are these turbines aren't visibly obtrusive, the tide is always there unlike wind, and if these are spread around the tide is not in phase all over the country, so no overall lull on the turn.

Obviously they'll pick the strongest tides to start with, which is why Seagen was in Strangford Lough. It's a bit disappointing Siemens sold it to their rival only about 3 years after taking over themselves, as from a public point of view it would be good to see not only competition but more investment and production capacity.

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Interesting Andy, tidal had me imagining huge concrete barrages and lagoons, or strings of devices bobbing up and down not underwater turbines anchored to the sea bed.

I did notice from a linked video that Catapult Offshore Renewable Energy based in Blyth Northumberland which I pass regularly also played a part.



That's excellent news just the type of "new industry" worthy of a bit of serious investment to develop.

Regards Neil

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Re: Energy Matters Global and Domestic

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Some of the best places for tidal turbines are where you have a tidal bore. I seem to recall (on the BBC "Coast" programme) Neil Oliver saw such a setup in an Irish location where (as the water route was restricted) there was a very powerful current running with the tide, and the turbine was getting a lot of force to move it.