drl relay

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: drl relay

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No, that's completely wrong in this case Sparksie - this is a deliberate default state of UK X7s. DRLs were only required for new vehicles from February 2011 under European Directive 76/656/EEC, as amended by 2008/89/EC. Vehicles exported to the UK were shipped with the option disabled prior to this date. The X7 got a mild facelift in 2011 and this model had an LED striplight DRL instead.

I don't know how many times I have to say it - the DRLs are simply not activated - nothing to do with the BSI not doing its job.

The BSI is working perfectly and it is perfectly normal standard practice that these are not activated in the UK until 2011 on.
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Re: drl relay

Post by wheeler »

Yep my 2010 DRL's were never activated, everything was present that was needed though. A simple configuration change with Diagbox & they were working as they should. One of the original bulbs blew just before Christmas & have now replaced them with LED's which are massively better than the originals.
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Re: drl relay

Post by sparksie »

Fair enough, my mistake.
I missed that clarification first time, sorry.
However, if I were using any such aftermarket relay, I can assure you most people would struggle to distinguish where Citroen wiring ended and Sparksie wiring began. It certainly would not look horrible, ridiculous, or out of character in any way, with most people not able to distinguish between a standard unmodified car that works and one that is equipped with my mod.
This is a basic requirement, to ensure compliance with EU standards. The car, as designed, complies with the requirements. Any alterations I make, as a professional, must by definition, restore the car to normal correct operation. My personal standards require that any wiring I carry out meets or exceeds the standards imposed on the manufacturer. You will find no bell wire, scotchloks, chock blocks or insulating tape anywhere on any of my jobs. The main distinguishing feature is usually the presence of a supplementary fuse box, which I usually fit even if there are spare fuse positions in the original fusebox, for the benefit of those who may need to work on it after me.
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Re: drl relay

Post by GiveMeABreak »

These days multiplexed systems are far more involved and a lot of electrical issues are caused by DIY or poor hacking / splicing of car wiring systems, with people completely oblivious to how the CAN / VAN systems work and the impact on other systems as a result.

That is the whole point of multiplexing - to reduce the amount of cabling used compared to a traditional non-multiplexed vehicle and to provide a better diagnosis of systems, system redundancy and of course to provide a lot more integration between equipment allowing for additional and safety enhancing vehicle features amongst other things.

The number of issues I have dealt with where people have equipment / system problems, only to find that the previous owner has botched a repair or tried a bypass here and there and basically caused more issues for the new owner to solve. We're already hearing of the slightly unrelated issues of new second hand owners of vehicles finding the DPF has been removed and are now left with a huge bill or scrapping the car to get it road legal - but that's another story.

I'm sure your wiring skills are legendary Sparksie :-D (sincerely meant) and my comments about aftermarket DRLs is a personal one from the many awful ones I have seen on the roads fitted to older cars that just look stuck on with a bit of velcro jobbies. I know that OSRAM and other companies to some tidy retro EU legal kits that fit into the round fog light recesses of cars - and these do come with some advanced electronics to ensure they work properly with the vehicles lighting systems:

https://www.nightbreaker.co.uk/ledriving-fog

LED Fog B.PNG
LED Fog A.PNG
But like anything half decent, it has a cost - a few pence short of £250 for this kit for the LED Fog and DRL function combined.
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Re: drl relay

Post by sparksie »

Ah! That makes sense.
I misunderstood.
I was envisaging getting original, manufacturer fitted lighting to behave correctly, not decorating a Christmas tree!
Yes, retro-fitted lighting can be appalling and totally at odds with the design. That's something I generally try to avoid.
My advice is usually to get the original spec lights working to the best of their ability, then decide whether you truly need the add-ons.
IMHO, if DRLs are wanted on an older car, not designed to have them, they should be incorporated into the existing lights, either in the form of a dim-dip, or a dual filament sidelight. Indeed, Volvo used to use the latter on their 2 and 7 series cars. 5W for sidelight and 21W for DRL. Indeed, the bay15d bulb holder fits in the same footprint as a ba15s, making this quite an easy mod on some cars.
In any event, for myriad reasons, my input in this thread was misplaced, so I'll bow out and resolve to read more carefully before wading in.
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Re: drl relay

Post by myglaren »

The Volvo/SAAB solution was a far superior one IMO. Simple, effective and not blinding.
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Re: drl relay

Post by wheeler »

sparksie wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 01:51
Fair enough, my mistake.
I missed that clarification first time, sorry.
However, if I were using any such aftermarket relay, I can assure you most people would struggle to distinguish where Citroen wiring ended and Sparksie wiring began. It certainly would not look horrible, ridiculous, or out of character in any way, with most people not able to distinguish between a standard unmodified car that works and one that is equipped with my mod.
This is a basic requirement, to ensure compliance with EU standards. The car, as designed, complies with the requirements. Any alterations I make, as a professional, must by definition, restore the car to normal correct operation. My personal standards require that any wiring I carry out meets or exceeds the standards imposed on the manufacturer. You will find no bell wire, scotchloks, chock blocks or insulating tape anywhere on any of my jobs. The main distinguishing feature is usually the presence of a supplementary fuse box, which I usually fit even if there are spare fuse positions in the original fusebox, for the benefit of those who may need to work on it after me.

If there's one thing I hate its obviously non original looking wiring. I do however like piggy back fuse holders due to the ease of being able to put back to original if required with minimum trace of it ever being there and also minimum butchering of original wiring. I do also like utilising vacant positions in the original fusebox wherever possible. I get major OCD when I see inline fuses scattered all over an engine bay or a bunch of them hanging off the battery positive terminal.
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Re: drl relay

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Indeed, I’ve used those fuses too for my dash cams and Snooper, as I won’t splice any original wiring on principle and for reasons already stated. The piggy back fuses work perfectly and make it easy to remove without any damage to original wiring.
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Re: drl relay

Post by sparksie »

Okay, getting a bit off topic, but I agree with all of that, in principle at least.
A piggyback fuse has the merit of being readily identifiable by any repair person, not familiar with the individual car and any mods previously carried out. Be careful, though. You can overload the original fuse box, which after all is not designed for the combined loads of the original fuse and the piggybacked one. They can and do melt the "live" side of the 'box. Only use these for low current loads. Never to power supplementary driving lights, or a power amplifier for a subwoofer, for example.
The same problem potentially affects unused slots in the fusebox. Unless you know that slot is used for a 30Amp load in another model with the SAME fusebox, you mustn't connect heavy loads to it.
A supplementary fusebox is the correct way to go and can have as many fuses as you'll ever need, all in one spot, with guaranteed heavy enough cabling for the envisaged loads.
There are times when splicing into existing wiring is unavoidable, but not many. It's almost always possible to unplug connectors and build a loom extension to plug in between the disconnected parts. This can always simply be unplugged and the original connectors put back together, if it's ever necessary to go back to standard, or if the mod is being migrated to another car.
Scrapyards are a good source of plastic connector bodies and Farnell/CPC, or RS Components are good for the male and female pins, though if you're only planning to do one job, you may be able to get enough wiring loom from the scrappy to be able to use the complete connector.
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Re: drl relay

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That’s fine, as there are redundant fuses for the installation of the factory option Amp and plenty of others for the Auto Box and other kit that are not used. I’ve got more factory fitted lights than a film set, so have no need for any other gubbins. But Dash cams and my snooper require very low power requirements and that supplied is far more than needed. The difficulty was finding the correct switched supply that was without BSI control, but all works a treat.

Most PSA passenger cars circa 2005 on have the option of a JBL or Philips multiplexed Amp and include a Sub Woofer and the supplementary fuse boxes are already there attached to the BSI (I have three of these on my BSI) and one includes the 30A fuse for the Amp and electric seats already. Most of the lighting is handled by the engine fuse box anyway with 10 and 15A fuses for left and right main and dipped beam lights, with the BSI handling the command and control side of things.