C15d champ injector pump help please.

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Wookey
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by Wookey »

Hi. I had a C15 for 13 years, and ran it on SVO for several years. But I had a Bosch pump so can't help you much with the Lucas one, except to re-iterate the advice that they famously don't last long with SVO. Were you heating it or running it cold?

What I don't know is what actually breaks on the lucas pumps. I presume it is some delicate bit inside, in which case it sounds like you may have done that, although you could be lucky and you've just bunged up the fuel filter - this was the main issue I had with running biodiesel (although not with fresh SVO).

If you want to carry on using SVO you really do need to switch over to the Bosch pump (or make biodiesel instead of running plain SVO). As you have been advised, that probably involves changing a few other bits to match - again, I've not done that so don't actually know.

This message is not much use and you may well have got it fixed in the last two weeks. But if you have further C15 issues maybe I will recall relevant info.
First bit of advice is check that you rear trailing arms are running straight and not twisting. The bearings go and they sag until the tyres hit the wheel arches. It's hard to fix, and generally much easier to just go get a whole new(er) rear axle. I guess if it's only done 80K you should be fine.
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xantia_v6
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by xantia_v6 »

In case you have not seen it, we did once have an "EPIC" topic.:. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45980
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@wookey, thanks bud i'll look into it (pops it on the ever growing list of things to do!!)

@everyone, so i got a new pump in the end as i couldn't get the original one working again, was fitted yesterday and i picked the old girl up today...total night mare! it's smoking like a chimney , the fitter said i needed to put some more derv in it with some inject cleaner fluid with it and run her around for 20 miles or so and it will clear...it didn't and it revs to high heaven even when its on tick over it sounds like it is red lining ! and it chugs and pulls in 3-4th gear...honestly i could cry she sounds like she is going to explode.
what do you guys think ? did they not do the timing right? is it set to high ? will she go POP?

in other news, it was xmas apparently , hope you all had a good one and a happy new year to you and yours, and as ever thank you guys so much for putting up with my stupidity .
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van ordinaire
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by van ordinaire »

Your fitter's obviously in the rag trade, or footwear or something NOT a diesel engineer/technician so I'd be wary about taking it back to him - even though it IS really for him to sort out.

Not much help I'm afraid - BUT you now actually know more about these things than I.
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moizeau
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by moizeau »

A new pump? the same spec? Was the timing belt removed? Too many unknowns to comment. On the good side, the engine runs, they are pretty much indestructible, it's a setting up issue I feel. Find someone who knows what they're doing...It may be a neighbour with an old 405 on the drive! You never know. All the best
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by Wookey »

Yes, wrong timing can make it rev like crazy on 'idle'. That happened to me once when I had to change the pump whilst on holiday in France. I didn't have proper timing kit to hand so just swapped the pumps and hoped for the best: a) it went mental when started, revving to 'loads' and b) some bugger had already had the stop solenoid out of the new one in the scrappy (but I hadn't noticed) so now I had a runaway engine I couldn't turn off. Had to put the wheel back on in a real hurry and stand on the brakes to stop it. Very exciting couple of minutes. Putting the solenoid back in and just rotating the pump a few degrees made it work pretty well.

As someone has explained above you can just rotate the pump on the van to do coarse adjusting. Although to do it properly you need a couple of dial gauges (and it's something of a faff). There is also an idle adjuster so check that's actually working.

Although if you'd paid someone to replace it then really that not good enough and you should go back tell them to do a better job.
sparksie
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by sparksie »

Hmm
You're slap bang in the middle between rock and hard place.
It's the fitter's responsibility, no question, but do you dare risk it?
How are you stopping it? Does it stop on the key, or do you have to stall it?
If the key stops it, then you can most likely adjust it to run reasonably well, then bring it to a diesel specialist to sort it properly.
Assuming its not something silly, like the cold start fully on, or a return spring missing, or broken, try retarding it a little at a time and see if it seems to be helping. If you retard it too far it simply won't start, but won't do any harm, so that's the way to try first.
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

cheers guys, it was the same spec pump and it does stop with the key so thats good i suppose!
how do i rotate the pump ?
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xantia_v6
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by xantia_v6 »

Another possibility is given in this old post:
CitroJim wrote:
15 Mar 2009, 13:36
Thanks Tom :D

That is a different ball-game, especially as it's a 2.1TD with an EPIC pump.

The very first port of call has to be air leaks on the fuel lines and leakoff pipes. Air in the fuel can wreak havoc with the hydraulic servos in an EPIC and in extreme cases, can cause an engine run-away :shock: So, it might well rev to 20,000 rpm under such conditions :lol: :lol:

Look for bubbles in the transulcent parts of the fuel line and check very carefully the leakoffs and fuel return line for leaks. Other old suspects are the filter housing and the primer bulb. Speaking of filters, when was the fuel filter last changed as fuel starvation my cause the problem as well through failing hydraulic pressure in the pump.

Silly question I know, but does it stop more or less immediately the key is turned off? A slight idle increase and a run-on for a split second on cutting the ignition is normal but if it revs and runs on for a few seconds this points to a failing ESOS valve in the pump. These are replacable on a DIY basis but is a 6 or 7 spanner job. The ESOS valve is a funny old thing that takes the role of stop solenoid and throttle and it has small viton tips in it that are known to break up after a long while and fail to regulate speed and stopping. These pumps do not have a conventional stop solenoid or governor; it's all done electronically by pulsing the ESOS valves inside the pump.

I hate to say this as I seem to say it for every problem these days but a Lexia diagnosis is not a bad idea. The Lexia is able to run the EPIC through a full test programme and will reveal any ESOS or timing issues the pump may have.

Despite all the gloom, it's more than likely to be nothing more than an air leak.

For the potential it has to cause a run-away, the problem needs looking into pronto.
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

ok am cheaking for leaks now!
swamps
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

the engine revs more when i pump the fuel priming bulb ! then drops back down after 30 seconds! dont know if that means anything ?
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moizeau
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by moizeau »

You have 2 cables going to the pump. 1 is connected to the accelerator, the other to the 'wax stat' on the thermostat housing. on the end of the wax stat cable there is a small cable clamp. With the engine warm is should have free play in it. This increases revs when cold. If there is no free play, unscrew the clamp a little and push the lever it is connected to towards the cam belt. Does this slow the engine?
Also check the accelerator cable. Is the pedal higher than before? You should be able to unclip this at the pump. Remove the cable from the pump. Do the revs come down?
Once you've tried these things and checked for air, we can move on to altering the pump timing if it is no better. But do the basics first.
Good luck
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van ordinaire
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Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by van ordinaire »

When I had an air leak all I got was struggling (even more than usual) on hills, but I do feel for you; you really shouldn't be having all this grief, having paid someone good money to sort your original problem. sparksie's summed it pretty well - AND offered some sound advice as to general approach.