C15d champ injector pump help please.

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

WOW, thank you guys so much!! I had know idea i would get so much help :)
Sorry there has been a big gap there but i had to go to work , i’m ment to have the next three weeks off work to use up my holiday, which was cool as my C15D champ Nu venture campervan was still working when i booked the time off. Turns out the powers that be can not get any cover for my time off! (read they sacked the floater today!!!!!) so i have struck a deal to work my holiday and get double bubble so it looks like i might be able to get a pump or donor base,so things are looking up.
I see now that i might have skipped over some facts or questions today, but i am seriously like a fart in a trance at the moment as I have no previous knowledge of engines until 10 days ago and it has been a huge learning curve for me, but not one that i wasn't going to undertake as i researched the hell out of what base vehicle i needed for my camper and after a year i found a C15d that was in my price range and had no rot in the base itself (bulkhead , shasie etc.) so it was always on the cards that i would learn more and more about my baby so she could serve me well, being she is 25 years old she has only done 80k and was undersealed from birth and was stored undercover….BUT she had a prang that twisted the floating drop down floor in the kitchen area that lead to a leek over the driver's side doorma/luton that lead to the whole habitat being rotten.
So i have basically removed the whole unit and built a new one, which is cool but i have spent all my slush fund on building her up. As i had already brought the heat exchange and timing/water pump kit ready to swap over to a bosch as i want the whole project to be as of grid as possible (even got a 2kw rocket stove with secondary burn imported, and have even built the stove area to HETAS spec for a 5.5kw stove just to be on the safe side)but this hiccup has come at the totally the wrong time,,,like there is any other kind of time.
The plan is to go full time in the van and give up the house, so much so i have already given my notice on the house….hence the panic!

Sorry for the wall of text but i thought i should throw some content in here rather than me just crying HELP.

Soooo, it was getting cold and she was getting sticky and sluggish on starting and as the days got colder i needed to rev her a bit more from the cold start or she would stall, 10 days ago i need to use the drill while fixing up a wall unit in the back but the extension wouldn't reach, so i turned her over but she wasn't having it, so i turned the ignition on a few times till the yellow heat coil went off, maybe 3 4 times until i thought she was warm enough to start , and she did catch so i reved her for 30 seconds then put her into first to pull forward a meter and she stalled and never started again, i then poured no less than 15 2 litre boiled kettles over the pump/lines and engine but alas ..nothing!
All the veg oil was pure veg/sunflower oil from the big tescos which was 70p a litre at the time and i just couldn't pass it up...what a fool!!!! #-o

@white exec unfortunately my filter is not like that one ! but is similar enough, thank you though for your time for helping an idiot :)

@moizeau i will get on this first thing in the morning, again thank you

@admiral51 I know right...it's like i only ever use the interweb because i broke some s**t that i had no business messing with :roll: . Thank you for the warm welcome.

And to everyone else who has chimed in, a huge thank you, i have been so lost right up till now, i have phoned scrap yards, injection pump specialist , THE ORIGINAL PUMP MANUFACTURER ...you name it !!and if you were to combine all there “help” i still wouldn't be a tenth of the help you guys have given me in the last few hours...you rock

If any one would like to see what i have managed to build(bare in mind i'm a cleaner not a tradesmon or engineer ) then i’ll slap some photos up.

Again thank you all so so so much

Brian
Last edited by swamps on 08 Dec 2018, 00:59, edited 2 times in total.
swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@van ordinaire hahahah thanks buddy, i can not beleive that took me so long to type that i missed your post by 50mins.
i will be checking them out for sure, there is a 97 C15 for 175£ and a guy says he will drop it off for 150£ , so all in for 325 quid is awesome as the wings doors and bonnet look solid as well....but he wont text me back regarding the pump model! so i wont know if i can use it till i can understand the order of the pump part numbers and weather i could use them .
honestly is a mind field for a new start like myself!
User avatar
van ordinaire
Donor 2017
Posts: 2537
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 14:45
x 240

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by van ordinaire »

I have every sympathy as while I have a lifetime's experience of fixing cars my C15 is my 1st diesel & (apart from the 2CV) FWD & after 3 1/2 years I've not managed to do much more than change the fuel filter.

£150 seems a lot for delivery, but I s'pose you've got to look at what you're getting for the overall cost, including the convenience! Oh - & you are so lucky, having somewhere to put a parts van. Jealous? Not arf!

If you're looking to defray some of the costs, I'd be interested in the bonnet, front doors & heater motor.
swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

van ordinaire wrote:
08 Dec 2018, 19:01
I have every sympathy as while I have a lifetime's experience of fixing cars my C15 is my 1st diesel & (apart from the 2CV) FWD & after 3 1/2 years I've not managed to do much more than change the fuel filter.

£150 seems a lot for delivery, but I s'pose you've got to look at what you're getting for the overall cost, including the convenience! Oh - & you are so lucky, having somewhere to put a parts van. Jealous? Not arf!

If you're looking to defray some of the costs, I'd be interested in the bonnet, front doors & heater motor.

:rofl2: like i would be so lucky... the listing was pulled , so pooff all gone, the £150 transport quote from nottingham to durham door to door was well wearable all considered , but alas its not to be, have a quot from a braker for a lucas pump for £280.80 inc P&P , but still at that price i would want the bosch and all the gubbins.

I did how ever manage to remove the solidoid and found that after a few primes there was veg oil in the housing followed by diesel , not sure what this means !! but at least the list is getting ticked off aye.

thanks again guys.

Brian
sparksie
Donor 2016
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 23:35
x 32

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by sparksie »

Hi Brian
Getting to the party late, but to be honest, I couldn't have helped much anyway.
I don't know the C15 particularly well, though it's very like the Ducatos that I used to use as work vans.
Never had one with a Lucas pump, though. Wouldn't have kept it, if I had.
Fiddly, temperamental things, IME, though they do have a following.
But then again, some folk like to be tied up and whipped, so just because people like something, doesn't mean it's good!
You'll get lots of help on here, whether you retain the Lucas, or change to Bosch.
Again. just my opinion, but long term, the Bosch will probably be cheaper, due to greater reliability and much higher tolerance for variable fuel quality. I'm aware of a couple that used to run (highly illegally!) on Kerosene, despite the lack of lubrication.
Both were still running and passing annual smoke tests when they moved away.
Don't try that with a Lucas!
If doing the change, you'll need everything fuel related under the bonnet, so better to get a donor vehicle, if you can.
Even the fuel filter housing will be different, though I think you could get away with using that.
You definitely need all the mounting hardware and the pipes. There's conflicting advice as to whether you need the injectors.
Personally, I think you do, though any second now, somebody will be along to say no.
Before giving up on the existing Lucas, though, make sure you have diesel reaching the pump.
Veggie oil turns hard in cold weather and could easily block pipes between the tank and the filter, or even the crude gauze pickup filter in the tank itself.
Try opening the fuel inlet at the pump, probably a banjo, most likely needing a 17mm spanner. Be careful not to lose the two copper washers.
You should replace those, but if you put them back in the same places, you'll usually get away with reusing them. There may also be a tiny mesh filter in there, that can be cleaned and reused.
With the inlet pipe off, try pumping the primer. You should get gushing fuel on every push of the bulb.
If you do, connect it back up, pull out the stopper solenoid, then pump it again. That should fill the pump. When it's full and fuel comes out of the hole, pop the stopper back in, reconnect it, crack open the injector pipe nuts and crank it with the throttle fully pressed.
That should spill fuel down the side of the engine. If it does, happy days. Tighten the nuts and fire it up.
If not, then there's a problem in the pump. You might be able to take the plunger out of the stop solenoid, allowing fuel to pass and the engine to start, but remember, if you do this, the only way to stop it will be to stall it in gear, which is not a safe way to run it. Do it only as a diagnostic aid.
Don't do it at all, if you have an autobox, or if you're not absolutely sure you can stall it safely.
If it runs with the plunger removed, the stopper has failed and you should get a new one before using it on the road.
Good luck with it.
Oh, yes, some pics of your handiwork would be great, providing it's ok with admin... Marc?
sparksie
Donor 2016
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 23:35
x 32

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by sparksie »

Hah!
Just read the last post, in which you say you've got the solenoid out, so you're already ahead of me.
I'd be testing the solenoid on the bench, before refitting it, but I appreciate most people can't do that, so I skipped that step in my post.
User avatar
van ordinaire
Donor 2017
Posts: 2537
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 14:45
x 240

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by van ordinaire »

On the basis of my own experience (coming up to 50,000 miles in 3 1/2 years) I can't agree with the obviously far more knowledgable sparksie about the reliability of the Lucas unit, so I'd be content to swap like for like, especially as surely the 1st priority is to get the poor ol' thing going again.
As I see it the only advantage of th Bosche pump is that it'll cope with veg. oil (but then so did my Lucas one for a time) which is a bonus, that might be worth all the additional work (& cost?). In which case donor vehicle IS the route to go, so not only do have ALL the parts (including injectors - IF required) but reference points for where they all go/attach.
£2-300 "spares or repair" C15's come up for sale all the time - although them disappearing again seems to happen rather a lot. Actually, I think Peaks 2CV is trying to offload a customer's rotbox at the moment.
swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

cheers guys, am going to tinker a bit more today but i have a mechanic come to look it over tomorrow to see if he can help!
so fingers crossed but as far as i can make out it seems to be the pump as i can not get any fuel to come out the injector hose .
sparksie
Donor 2016
Posts: 595
Joined: 04 Jan 2014, 23:35
x 32

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by sparksie »

Hi Van Ordinaire
That's the first time anybody's called me that!
Not at all sure it's deserved, as I've only ever had direct experience of Lucas pumps on BMC products and, to be fair, they always worked well enough. I just like the virtually indestructible Bosch. They often self prime, too, which I've never heard of a Lucas doing.
But most of my prejudice is based on the preferences of the wonderful guys and one gal, who've worked on them for me down the years.
If they suck their teeth and put it at the end of the queue, promising to have it in a day or two, rather than the usual few hours, I'm obviously not going to be a fan.
It doesn't help that I don't know how they work, while I've understood the Bosch ones since I was in school, even though the Xantia one on my bench will be the first one I've ever dismantled with the intention of putting it back in service.
Brian, to get back to your problem, I strongly suspect you've got some lard blocking the pistons or valves in the injector pump. Getting some heat into it, for a few hours might well solve that. Not hot enough to burn your finger, but too hot to hold comfortably in your hand. Your boiling water idea was good, but it's sustained heat you need, to raise the temperature of the innards sufficiently to liquify the solid fat.
A hairdryer MIGHT be able to do it and, if it can, would be a less risky option than a heat gun.
Fingers crossed, it'll be rattling again tomorrow.
swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@ hhmmmm.....a hair dryer you say!! i will have to go cap in hand around the village to find one
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 7865
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 506

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by xantia_v6 »

I guess you have seen our previous topic on the Lucas EPIC, which although a different pump, I think has many of the same design features.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45980
swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@xantia_v6 cheers buddy i willl ookover it tonight,still trying to prize a hair dryer of one of the lasses in the village,they would sooner give up their first born!!
Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 5447
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 1218

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I have an old mate John Gethin, who for many years has kept a very large shed full of Citroen diesel parts, I've had all sorts off him at times from camshafts to complete engines, he might be worth a call if you need anything for the C15. This is his van sales page, contact details are there.

https://deantruckrepairs.co.uk/
swamps
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Dec 2018, 11:22
x 2

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by swamps »

@Gibbo2286 thats awesome buddy , thank you so much
User avatar
van ordinaire
Donor 2017
Posts: 2537
Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 14:45
x 240

Re: C15d champ injector pump help please.

Post by van ordinaire »

Sparksie, such modesty - I still struggle to identify the bits under the bonnet of my C15, &, apart from priming it when I've run out of fuel (OR appearing to have) all I've ever done is fit a couple of new filters, which speaks volumes for its reliability - even when running on 1/3 sunflower oil.
Self-priming would be nice but as my only previous experience of running out of diesel was a '60's dumper truck, the C15 was a very pleasant surprise.