Fuel additive level too low error

[Mancunian]

So the 970 ml capacity of. Diagbox is fake (just to make us refill more often).

When I told Citroen my car needed a refill their answer was we do not refill. We remove the tank and fit a new tank that come already filled. We never refill additive fluids.

If that's true and is Citroen policy....is so inefficient for customer and unfriendly to the environment....

[Mancunian]

But then as long as you add 1 litre, it doesn't matter if it is not completely full this is because the diagbox is telling me is full when 970 ml had been poured in. So 1 litre is slightly more should be enough unless mechanic is super clumsy. Agree?

[Rp0thejester]

My C8 took over 2 and half litres to fill, so out of the 3 litre top up I used there was excess. I would say that if fluid isn't escaping, add more

[Mancunian]

According to my numbers C4 uses 4 ml of additive every 60 litres of diesel. Therefore with 1 litre will be used after 15000 litres of diesel. My car consumes 6 litres of diesel every 100 km so will do 250000 km every litre of additive. (That's 155k miles!)

1 litre is enough and the control system will alert me once the litre is consumed. So will add more in.... 10 years time lol

I will add 1 litre but thanks for all opinions

[GiveMeABreak]

No that's not true, the additive system is designed to be topped up - so that's just not true - that's like saying once you run out of petrol you need to have a new tank fitted - so whether they haven't gone on the proper training course and nobody knows how to do it - how embarrassing and totally incompetent if that is what they have told you.

Worth reporting that to Head Office and I'd be interested to see what they say about that.

[Mancunian]

That's what he said and it was Cristal clear he was not getting confused with the bag as he told me the part number of the refill tank that my car is fitted with.

So yeah embarrassing. I can see though Citroen motivation as I imagine lots of money is made as that part will be sold with a margin in Citroen garages at the expense of loyal customer that prefer to go to the Citroen garage happy to pay more than local garage because of the quality of the service. Abuse.

I may report it, I just need to find the way to get some hard evidence.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well it's not that difficult to be honest - why if that was the case do Citroen sell the top up fluid (Powerflex, Extend, etc. in various 1 or 3 litre containers or in the case of the pouch system complete new pouches? Why would there own technical information detail how to top it up?

PSA have been topping up DPF additive tanks for the last 23 years at least on the DPF equipped vehicles.....

Time to change the dealer they're obviously incompetent and don't deserve to have the Franchise. They need reporting in my book.

The actual additive fluid level check is part of the scheduled service at 64k miles then every 16k miles. Provide the VIN here and I'll show you the extract for your vehicle (please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff).

The only thing I can think of is that if you have a pouch based system, then obviously they will not refill the pouch as these are designed to have a new pouch put into the housing, but for reservoir systems it would not be logical, as the new tanks are only supplied empty and have to be filled up in aftersales!

Stress!

[Mancunian]

Thanks for your reply.

They wouldn't own any information on how to top up. However you know many people go to dealership even if cheaper elsewhere. But I see your point, it looks like topping up is standard practice. Then I agree, it might have been a misunderstanding or an incompetent dealership.

Thanks yeah would be very interesting to see the extract for my vehicle, here is the VIN:
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks!

[GiveMeABreak]

Dealers do have the information readily available to them as franchised dealerships. They have to go on extensive and expensive training courses to qualify on systems and technical procedures and readily have access to service documentation and procedures in every dealership. I have much the same info that they do.

Here's the summary and I've highlighted the check:

Click Image to Zoom

[Mancunian]

Thanks for your messages.

I have now booked on Wednesday a top up of my additive tank in my local garage.

They warned me thought saying that I should have replaced the DPF!! because in their experience is likely to fail soon after the additive level goes too low due to mileage. I told them the mileage and they confirmed it should be replaced

My car has 107000 miles. Any advice when DPD filter needs replacement?
More importantly, what is the healthy range of pressure differential across the filter? (It would be good to know the normal pressure differential for various engine rpm, so I can monitor with my diagnosis box if I am in healthy parameters and detect when not)

Thanks!

[GiveMeABreak]

You are getting close as if you look at the servicing schedule it should be checked at 112k miles then every 16k miles. However we have seen vehicles going past this figure - it will depend on the type of road conditions. Lots of short journeys in traffic may reduce the life if the filter slightly, but they are designed to factor in average conditions.

In any case you could opt to have the DPF cleaned instead of replaced. There are places that do this now, but you will also need to tell the engine ECU that the DPF has been replaced if having it deep cleaned, otherwise it will not know and still flag you a warning when the Cerine deposits reach the amount in grammes that I talked about previously.

As for the monitoring, I can't see that helping too much as this level will fall and rise according to the particular time you undertake the test. Once he filter has regenerated the pressure will fall again and gradually build back up until it regenerates again.

[Mancunian]

I got the tanked topped up with PAT fluid and counter reset for 40£. I bought 1 litre and it tourn out there was a bit of left overs! 50 ml something like this.

Marc,

In terms of differential pressure monitoring, to be effective I agree the readings need to be compared in similar conditions E.g idle to idle or for equivalent rpm.

Cheers

[Rp0thejester]

You are getting close as if you look at the servicing schedule it should be checked at 112k miles then every 16k miles. However we have seen vehicles going past this figure - it will depend on the type of road conditions. Lots of short journeys in traffic may reduce the life if the filter slightly, but they are designed to factor in average conditions.

In any case you could opt to have the DPF cleaned instead of replaced. There are places that do this now, but you will also need to tell the engine ECU that the DPF has been replaced if having it deep cleaned, otherwise it will not know and still flag you a warning when the Cerine deposits reach the amount in grammes that I talked about previously.

As for the monitoring, I can't see that helping too much as this level will fall and rise according to the particular time you undertake the test. Once he filter has regenerated the pressure will fall again and gradually build back up until it regenerates again.

So from what I can deduce from that is....get diagbox and remove EML before MOT.....

[Mancunian]

The garage did that so I didn't have to use my diagbox

[GiveMeABreak]

I got the tanked topped up with PAT fluid and counter reset for 40£. I bought 1 litre and it tourn out there was a bit of left overs! 50 ml something like this.

Marc,

In terms of differential pressure monitoring, to be effective I agree the readings need to be compared in similar conditions E.g idle to idle or for equivalent rpm.

Cheers

That won't necessarily be effective either as there are other factors used by the system to determine when and what level of regeneration assistance is used, and the change in differential pressure also depends on the following parameters:

• Fuel consumption (fuel with additive) (quantity of additive present in the filter)
• Vehicle driving conditions (activation of post injection)
• Exhaust gas temperature
• Speed of the exhaust gases in the particle filter