C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It really depends on what system / component you are referring to - yes many components are used across the marques, but some may have different software, ratings and other subtle differences.

What actually do you need a guide to doing - is this the same job as removing the actuator system or something else? If you can be more specific of what you need to do maybe I can put something here for you.
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Marc
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 16 Oct 2018, 08:53 It really depends on what system / component you are referring to - yes many components are used across the marques, but some may have different software, ratings and other subtle differences.

What actually do you need a guide to doing - is this the same job as removing the actuator system or something else? If you can be more specific of what you need to do maybe I can put something here for you.

Hi Marc, so replacement of the clutch and central slave cylinder, I believe that what Richard was saying about the slave cylinder being the problem sounds about right, no oil is leaking from around the actuator and appear to be coming from the bell housing.
My biggest concerns are things like hub nuts etc and other parts that are none reusable and obviously torque settings. I know most people use the tight as you can method but I'm a bit of a torque freak.
Also if you could put the part numbers up as some of the clutch kits are a diameter off 228mm or 300mm and with all this confusion of the 3rd party listings for parts I'm a little concerned.
I did find a video on YouTube but was for a different box, so was thinking I could do a video also and put it up here for others.
Regards
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok. leave it with me - I'll write something up for you shortly. No clutch slave cylinder with the piloted manual system.
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by GiveMeABreak »

First you'll need to depressurise the system:

Depressurizing the system
  • Connect the diagnostic equipment to the vehicle’s diagnostic socket.
  • Switch on the ignition.
  • Using the diagnostic tool:- Select 'Depressurisation of the hydraulic circuit'.
All the oil contained in the electrohydraulic actuator unit and in the pressure accumulator returns to the piloting actuator hydraulic reservoir. The piloting actuator hydraulic circuit is no longer pressurised.

Repressurising
  • Connect the diagnostic equipment to the vehicle’s diagnostic socket.
  • Switch on the ignition.
  • Using the diagnostic equipment : Select : Pressurising the hydraulic circuit.
The electric motor of the electrohydraulic actuator unit operates for a few seconds. The piloting actuator hydraulic circuit is pressurised.

Bleeding the hydraulic circuit
  • Connect the diagnostic equipment to the vehicle’s diagnostic socket.
  • Switch on the ignition.
  • Select in the diagnostic tool menu:
  • The vehicle
  • The RPO no.
  • Perform the Global Test.
  • Using the diagnostic equipment select: Bleeding The Hydraulic Circuit.
The diagnostic tool pressurises the piloting actuator hydraulic circuit, changing through all the gears in order to force air out of the circuit.
Special Tools
Chef A.PNG
RefDescription
[0217]Clutch mechanism compression tool
[0217-A]Clutch mechanism compressor
[0217-B2Z]Retaining rod (Ø 8 mm)
[0217-Cx]Clutch Centring Drift (Code [0217-C6Z] for EW10 Gearbox)
  • CAUTION: In order to improve the centring of the friction plate and to eliminate engine jerks, vibrations and noise, compress the clutch mechanism when tightening the fixing bolts; Using tool [0217]
  • CAUTION: Always replace the clutch bearing when replacing the clutch mechanism or the clutch disc.
Removing
Remove the gearbox. (* See footnote)
Chef B.PNG
Chef C.PNG
Fit the tool [0217-CX].Remove the 3 bolts (1) (Every second bolt).
Position the tools [0217-A] and [0217-B2Z] on the clutch mechanism (2).
Screw in the 3 retaining rods [0217-B2Z] in place of the fixing screws (1) (Do not exceed the threads.
Caution: Some flywheels have open threads. Do not exceed the threads of the 3 retaining rods while screwing; Risk of deformation of the secondary flywheel.

When compressing the clutch mechanism; Do not cross hard when tightening the central screw of the tool [0217-A]. The tightening must not exceed 10 revolutions clockwise.
  • Compress the clutch mechanism (2) with the central bolt of tool [0217-A] (at "a").
  • Finish removing the remaining bolts (1).
  • Release the clutch mechanism (2) by moving the central bolt of the tool [0217-A] (at "a").
  • Remove tools [0217-A] and [0217-B2Z].
Remove:
  • The clutch mechanism (2)
  • The clutch disc
Preparation for removal
Checking - Cleaning
Visually check:
  • The flywheel face for damage or scores
  • The flywheel for wear
  • The condition of the starter ring gear
  • The clutch mechanism (2)
If there is oil in the clutch mechanism (2):
  • Check the condition of the crankshaft seal
  • Check the condition of the shaft seal ring
Caution: Do not reuse a clutch disc whose hub has traces of oxidation or traces of grease.

Deoxidise and degrease the following parts; Using a degreaser (LOTIWAR TCE 10 - Mechanical cleaner)
  • The clutch housing
  • The primary shaft
  • The clutch bearing guide (according to equipment)
  • The clutch fork (according to equipment)
N.B.: In case of significant corrosion, use a wire brush without damaging the parts.

Greasing
Strictly observe the lubrication step.
CAUTION: Protect the interior of the clutch housing from splashes of grease.

Chef D.PNG
Vehicles equipped with a gearbox that has a mechanical clutch bearing Spray a little grease MOLYCOTE G-RAPID PLUS (aerosol) on the splines of the primary shaft and on the clutch bearing guide tube (at "b" and "c").
Vehicles equipped with a gearbox that has a hydraulic clutch bearing : Grease the splines of the primary shaft with MOLYCOTE G-RAPID PLUS (at "c").
Do not soil the clutch disc lining; Risk of skating.
Fit the clutch disc (3) on the splined shaft and perform several translations to distribute the grease.
Remove the clutch plate.
Chef E.PNG
CAUTION: An excess of grease will contaminate the clutch friction plate and cause noise in neutral, slipping or juddering of the clutch.
"d": Traces of grease present on a clutch disc polluted as a result of excess grease.
"e": Traces of grease present on a clutch housing contaminated by excess grease.
Caution: Clean all traces of grease that can be thrown onto the rotating friction.
Remove the surplus grease on the top of the grooves and the end of the input shaft using a cloth.
NB: The film of grease deposited on the rotating elements must be as thin as possible in order to avoid projections.
Refitting
CAUTION : Observe the tightening torque values.
Chef F.PNG
CAUTION : When refitting, place the face of the clutch disc, where the N° PSA 96 XXX XXX 80 is marked, gearbox end.
Refit the clutch disc (3).
Centre the clutch disc (3) ; Using tool [0217-CX].
Chef G.PNG
CAUTION: The clutch mechanism and disc are paired at the factory and cannot be replaced separately.
CAUTION: Any fitting of a clutch mechanism with automatic free play adjustment (whether new or re-used) must compulsorily be performed using the compression tool [0217].

Refit the clutch mechanism (2).
N.B. : Do not remove the tool [0217-CX].
Chef H.PNG
CAUTION: No resetting of the clutch wear adjustment is permitted.
  • Position the tools [0217-A] and [0217-B2Z] on the clutch mechanism (2).
  • Screw in the 3 retaining rods [0217-B2Z] in place of the fixing screws (1); Do not exceed the threads.
  • Tighten the 3 bolts (1) by hand.
Chef I.PNG
Slowly compress the clutch mechanism (2) to contact with the primary flywheel (at "f").
Check the absence of friction:
  • Apply a slight force on the clutch disk (3) to control the rotation; Using a thin, flat screwdriver
  • In case of difficult or impossible rotation, continue the compression operation of the clutch mechanism very gradually until the rotation (1/8 of a turn on the tool screw [0217-B2Z])
If it is impossible to check the absence of friction (clutch disk not accessible), screw in the central screw of the tool [0217-B2Z] for a maximum of two additional revolutions.
  • Tighten the 3 bolts (1) to the specified torque.
  • Unscrew the centre bolt of the tool [0217-A] (at "a") by several turns to detension the clutch mechanism (2).
  • Remove tools [0217-A], [0217-B2Z] and [0217-CX].
  • Refit and tighten the remaining 3 bolts (1).
  • Refit the gearbox.
* Gearbox: Let me know if you are going to proceed and I'll get the gearbox removal Procedure up later as I have to go out now.
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Marc
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

Cheers Marc, well the last time i fitted a clutch, the pressure plate was just tightened each of the bolts up a 8th of a turn, didnt actually use the compression tool,,,,, and the only other time was a mk2 escort, which, well, just slapped it on!! Is this tool necessary? i could fabricate something along those lines i guess. I borrowed a self alignment spindle last time, so any excuse to buy another tool.
So yes, parents have given me the go ahead to do so, have explained it's going to be around £300 to £420 including fluid and lubes etc, but it may cost a little more on use once items once i get the procedure down.
So yes please when you have the time, no rush, as will be awaiting a few parts so far!!

Regards
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

Hey like this
Last edited by myglaren on 16 Oct 2018, 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: YouTube link
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I'll put the other info into this post as I can, so it will expand as I add to it.

Clutch Info
Engine typeClutch mechanism brandClutch mechanism typeClutch friction plate external
diameter (Road wheel side) ( mm)
Clutch friction plate internal
diameter (Road wheel side) ( mm)
Friction plate typeThrust bearing brand
EW10AValeo230 DNG 5100 +228,6155810SKF

Parts
Chef Clutch.PNG
Clutch Plate (2) Part: 2055HC £45.18 inc. VAT from Citroen
Exchange Clutch Kit (Items 1 & 2) Part: 2051Z4 - £184.66 inc. VAT from Citroen (plus a returnable surcharge)
The Bearing Buffer (3) (also known as Central Slave Cylinder) Part: 204184 is £116.11 inc. VAT

Clutch Tightening Torque
Chef Clutch B.PNG
Clutch mechanism fixing screws (3): tighten to 2 daNm
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Marc
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

Thanks, got the car up and secure and started removing the trim so i can start soaking the PITA nuts and bolts. The price of the slave cylinder is only a few quid (£10-£20) more expensive then what i can find. But the Clutch kit is a big bit more, whats your thoughts on this, a buy cheap buy twice thing??
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

NEVER buy a cheap clutch kit! There are some companies who supply 'refurbished' clutches! While there are some things that could be done on the cheap a clutch should never be one of these.
James
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

Hell Razor5543 wrote: 17 Oct 2018, 18:24 NEVER buy a cheap clutch kit! There are some companies who supply 'refurbished' clutches! While there are some things that could be done on the cheap a clutch should never be one of these.

Who makes the OEM clutch and what clutch makes do you guys recommend??

Regards, and sound advice!!
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I know enough about car mechanics to know what I cannot do. When I had the clutch on my C5 done I took it to an independent Citroen specialist. That means I cannot give you a name, but it won't take long for somebody to offer you advise.
James
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Chefslot wrote: 17 Oct 2018, 18:30
Hell Razor5543 wrote: 17 Oct 2018, 18:24 NEVER buy a cheap clutch kit! There are some companies who supply 'refurbished' clutches! While there are some things that could be done on the cheap a clutch should never be one of these.

Who makes the OEM clutch and what clutch makes do you guys recommend??

Regards, and sound advice!!
The original is Valeo (see the 'Clutch Info' table in my last post) - but do try and get a decent one as you don't really want to be doing the job again in a hurry.
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

My bad Marc, yes i see now. What i will do just before ordering is post up my parts list.
Regards
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Chefslot »

Hi Marc, i've removed the bumper to gain better accsess. I'm guessing the rest of it is as follows;
Drain oil in gearbox.
Undo the hub nut and anti roll bar, remove the drive shafts, tie to one side the strut and hub.
Free any wires and sensors to the gearbox, bell housing.
Remove that aluminium front part of the sub frame.
loosen engine and gearbox mounts, supporting the engine and gearbox.
Unscrew the bell housing from the engine and jiggle and wiggle the box out.
Only thing is, torque settings putting it back together again and replacement of sundries.
Regards
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Re: C4GP Gearbox, noise, wont start & Video

Post by Delvey »

How hard was it getting the EGS box out?
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