'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37014
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5648

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

old'uns wrote: 15 Sep 2018, 15:40 sorry marc, i thought i had at some point previously

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]**************[VIN obfuscated]**************[VIN obfuscated]
Hi Dave - I hate to say it, but copying the message from the PM system has just copied the resultant text and not the actual VIN as it has already been obfuscated by the system.

Just pop the VIN in a post under here and I will be able to see it.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
old'uns
Posts: 558
Joined: 06 Mar 2010, 20:21
Location: Cannock / 72800 sarthe
My Cars: '02 C5 - gone
'09 X7 - gone
CMax - X7 replacement - gone
Acadiane - lost to a V5c applicant
'06 C5 VTR auto est
'90 Honda Beat
'73 ST70 Dax
'75 ST Dax - 120 powered
x 127

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by old'uns »

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37014
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5648

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Success :-D
fanfare.PNG
Now I'll see what I can find...
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
old'uns
Posts: 558
Joined: 06 Mar 2010, 20:21
Location: Cannock / 72800 sarthe
My Cars: '02 C5 - gone
'09 X7 - gone
CMax - X7 replacement - gone
Acadiane - lost to a V5c applicant
'06 C5 VTR auto est
'90 Honda Beat
'73 ST70 Dax
'75 ST Dax - 120 powered
x 127

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by old'uns »

i'm hanging around...but i will admit to looking at other cars just in case i need one fast!!!
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by MikeT »

old'uns wrote: 15 Sep 2018, 16:01 inlet doser is a Y shape with 2 butterflies, i wouldn't be surprised if the whole engine is like this....

regarding the RPO i've tried all combinations and still get the error message about activation


Yeah, I saw your engine bay pics, your intake layout is vastly different, not just the butterflies...

You shouldn't be asked for any activation details. Is it possible you've clicked YES when you should have clicked NO after startup?
Close Diagbox(?) and restart, if it asks to Activate, click NO. If it asks to Update, click NO. If you still get asked for verification after that, you may have to re-install, after a clean uninstall.
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1580
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 315

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by moizeau »

It's the same set up as on my 407, so at least if it develops the 'hiccups' we know how to fix that!
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37014
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5648

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so here are the main components of the Siemens Injection Engine Management System with designations in the following table I've constructed:

Click Diagrams to Zoom
Dave Siemens Engine Components A.PNG
ReferenceDesignationReferenceDesignation
ReferenceDesignationReferenceDesignation
1Engine speed sensor33Stability control ECU
2High pressure fuel sensor34Trip computer
3Fuel high pressure common injection rail35Service LED
4Diesel injectors36Pre-heating warning light
5Camshaft position sensor37Diagnostic warning lamp
6Cold air circuit electrovalve38Fan assembly/chopper
7Air intake temperature sensor39air conditioning compressor
8Inlet manifold pressure sensor40Cruise control safety switch
9air/air heat exchanger41Cruise control switch
10Variable geometry turbocharger42Cruise control switch
11Boost pressure regulation pneumatic capsule Boost pressure regulation repeat sensor43Switch module (at the steering wheel)
12Air flow meter44Engine coolant temperature gauge
13Air cleaner45Fuel level indicator
14catalytic converter46Built-in systems interface
15Particle filter47Accelerator pedal position sensor
16vacuum pump48Double injection relay
17pre-catalyst49Centralised diagnostic socket
18Exhaust gas temperature sensors50Battery
19Electrically controlled EGR electrovalve51injection ECU
20Turbocharging pressure regulation solenoid valve52Atmospheric pressure sensor incorporated in the injection ECU
21Exhaust gas/water exchanger53Vehicle speed sensor
22Hot air butterfly housing54Pre-post heat box
23Cold air butterfly housing55Clutch pedal switch
24Hot air circuit electrovalve56Brake pedal switch
25High pressure fuel regulator57Pre-heater plugs
26high pressure fuel pump58Fuel tank
27Fuel flow actuator59Tank unit/fuel pump module
28engine coolant temperature sensor60Fuel cooler
29Coolant flow electrovalve (by pass)61Manual fuel primer pump
30Fuel temperature sensor62Fuel filter
31Heated rear screen63Electric fuel heater
32automatic gearbox ECU64Coolant degas solenoid valve
Here are the Air System Parts:
Dave Air Supply Circuit A.PNG
" a" Hot air.
" b" Cold air.
(1) Air mixer (MAGNETTI MARELLI).
(2) turbocharger (GARRET GT 1749V).
(3) Air flow meter (SIEMENS).
(4) Air cleaner (PSA 4190).
(5) heat exchanger (VALEO).

Here is a more detailed view of the Air System for this Engine:
dave Air Supply Circuit B.PNG
Air circulation (as per arrows):
A: Outside air intake
B: Exhaust gas + Air
C: Exhaust gas
ReferenceDesignationReferenceDesignation
1Throttle Housing Control Electrovalve (EGR)13Variable Geometry Turbocharger
2Vacuum Pump14Air Inlet Turbine
3Vacuum Reservoir15Air Flow Meter + Air Temperature Sensor
4Exhaust Gas Recycling Valve (EGR)16Air Cleaner
5Exhaust Gas/Water Exchanger17Air/Air Heat Exchanger
6Air/Air Heat Exchanger Bypass Butterfly Control Electrovalve18Air Intake Temperature Sensor
7Turbocharging Pressure Regulation Solenoid Valve19Inlet Manifold Pressure Sensor
8Turbo Position Copy Sensor20Air/Air Heat Exchanger Bypass Butterfly
9Pneumatic Capsule For The Pressure Regulator Control Arm21Throttle Butterfly Housing (EGR)
10Particle Filter + Catalytic Converter22Injection ECU
11Pre-Catalyst23Atmospheric Pressure Sensor (Integrated In The Injection ECU)
12Exhaust Turbine24Air Inlet Manifold
--25Exhaust Gas Manifold
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
old'uns
Posts: 558
Joined: 06 Mar 2010, 20:21
Location: Cannock / 72800 sarthe
My Cars: '02 C5 - gone
'09 X7 - gone
CMax - X7 replacement - gone
Acadiane - lost to a V5c applicant
'06 C5 VTR auto est
'90 Honda Beat
'73 ST70 Dax
'75 ST Dax - 120 powered
x 127

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by old'uns »

now i know what i'm doing tonight!

in other news i now have dialog with the car and am currently having a root around...first impressions are no vacuum...quellle surprise
and i have seen somewhere something about particle level full... :shock: well may be not that shocked
quick actuator test as well...EGR was heard to make some noise

see you all later :-D
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1580
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 315

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by moizeau »

Splendid, so no movement of either butterfly or turbo on the actuator tests?
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
User avatar
old'uns
Posts: 558
Joined: 06 Mar 2010, 20:21
Location: Cannock / 72800 sarthe
My Cars: '02 C5 - gone
'09 X7 - gone
CMax - X7 replacement - gone
Acadiane - lost to a V5c applicant
'06 C5 VTR auto est
'90 Honda Beat
'73 ST70 Dax
'75 ST Dax - 120 powered
x 127

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by old'uns »

it was raining on and off so that will be tomorrow

i'll post some screenshots later, doesn't look too bad, well not to a untrained 'monkey' like me!, i'm sure someone will see otherwise

OT...36 is the other side of the river to our place?
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1580
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 315

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by moizeau »

Much further south east, almost 23, I guessed you were Le Mans region going by 'Sarthe' as in 'Aire de', I'll be passing there Wednesday, early afternoon, on the way to Caen. And then re passing Saturday! Good luck tomorrow.
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1580
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 315

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by moizeau »

Oh and thanks Marc, those diagrams will be very useful to me as well.
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37014
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5648

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No problem chaps - hope they help
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
old'uns
Posts: 558
Joined: 06 Mar 2010, 20:21
Location: Cannock / 72800 sarthe
My Cars: '02 C5 - gone
'09 X7 - gone
CMax - X7 replacement - gone
Acadiane - lost to a V5c applicant
'06 C5 VTR auto est
'90 Honda Beat
'73 ST70 Dax
'75 ST Dax - 120 powered
x 127

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by old'uns »

a bit of technical reading for someone.....

Image
no vacuum?

Image
flowmeter air temperature -49 ?

Image
DPF not blocked? airflow air temp now +21 ? good or bad?

Image
additive injector tested and sounds heard so OK?

Image
airflow air temp now back to -40

Image

Image

just as an after thought, is it a possibility that the vacuum pump has failed hence why someone previous 'bodged' the lines?
currently '06 C5 2.0 HDi auto estate Tip run and France trekker - well should be!! occupied currently by '10 Superb DSG 170 elegance- whistles and bells that work
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37014
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5648

Re: 'HDi's for Dummies' diagrams?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I shall have a squizz at those codes tomorrow Dave
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Post Reply