Heatwave and Gritters

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white exec
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by white exec »

So, a simple question: Why does tarmac melt in the UK, but doesn't in southern Spain?

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Different composition of materials.

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white exec
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by white exec »

OK, so . . . could there be something to learn there?
It also stays in place in rain and frost.

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I c&p'd your question (Why does tarmac melt in the UK, but doesn't in southern Spain?) to see if there were any answers and immediately came a cross this, not Spain but France.:

Tar fondu

Life in France is great but it’s not without its problems, the relentless politicisation of every minor event, teenagers on mopeds with modified exhausts that make a vuvuzuela sound soothing and… melting roads.

Picture the scene, you are descending a stunning route and suddenly round a bend to discover the road is melting, the once rock-hard tarmac is now in a semi-liquefied state. It’s like Dick Dastardly and Mutley have coated the road with treacle, the viscous tar sticks to the point of making you feel the bike decelerate.
Connoisseurs will actually recognise various forms of this, from oil-slick style running tarmac that coats your tyres to the deeper sections where bubbles slowly form and pop as you ride over.

The Science Bit
When it’s 35°C outside, that’s just the temperature in the shade. The tarmac itself is black, absorbs heat and can hit 80°C, no wonder it melts. It also means you can ride through air heated at 50°C. As a remedy to this sometimes the race route has been sprayed with water before the riders go past in a vain effort to cool it.

The rant bit
Yes it gets hot in France but I don’t understand why this is not taken into account when the authorities contract to get a road surfaced. Laying down something that’s going to literally melt when the weather hots up is stupid and dangerous, yet it’s something that happens time after time.
It can ruin your tyres, and can turn a white car into a Dalmatian scheme and above all, all road users lose traction substantially. Riders have crashed because of this in the Tour and amateurs risk the same.

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bobins
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by bobins »

Undoubtedly cost per unit is at the root of the problem, but there'll no doubt be other factors that have an effect. Tarmac that has a higher melting point may be harder to lay - would you want to ride on a roadlaying machine that's travelling over tar that's nudging 100 degrees ? Formulating a road surface with a higher melting point may mean using additives or modifiers that are environmentally questionable - 'Spanish' Tarmac may not meet UK standards in that respect. The finished road surface may not meet UK safety standards for grip / traction.
A few years ago there was an issue (kept quiet iirc) where numerous road surfaces that had been laid in the UK were proving to be downright dangerous when it rained (moreso than usual) - this was as a result of a new formulation that had been tried out.

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I would like to see where all the actual road tax goes and how it is spent. Therein lies the problem - road tax and fuel duty both end up in the coffers of the Exchequer - say no more!

I suspect that probably less than a quarter of the vast sums collected are actually spent on maintaining the roads, but we will never know. If the actual taxes raised from rip-off fuel duty and road tax were actually spent of road building and proper maintenance - we would probably be the envy of Europe - but - it's never going to happen and the good old motorist will continue to fund everything other than what they are supposed to be paying for with no accountability. :rant2:

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Michel wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 20:56
The tolls on the autoroutes in France, I presume, pay for them to be in such good condition. I'm happy to pay to use them. I can cover huge distances in a day on them, more than double what I can here in the UK!
over 90% of the time the roads we're on abroad aren't tolls. Calais to Paris is the only exception.

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Michel »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 10:32
Michel wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 20:56
The tolls on the autoroutes in France, I presume, pay for them to be in such good condition. I'm happy to pay to use them. I can cover huge distances in a day on them, more than double what I can here in the UK!
over 90% of the time the roads we're on abroad aren't tolls. Calais to Paris is the only exception.


Yeah, but you can't cruise at 95mph for hours in end on the non-toll roads. We drove from Tarragona to Dieppe last year in just over 11 hours. It's 830 miles. We stopped a few times too. It took me 8 hours from Glasgow to Reading last time I made the mistake of that trip. It tells you all you need to know when I put off going to see family up in Lancs 200 miles away because of the roads, yet I've no problem with driving to the South of France in a day.

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Michel »

white exec wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 08:37
So, a simple question: Why does tarmac melt in the UK, but doesn't in southern Spain?


I've never seen it melted in the South of France or in Greece when I lived there either. Different materials, I believe less tar and in Greece they use a lot of marble chippings instead of granite.

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Michel
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Michel »

bobins wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 09:45
Formulating a road surface with a higher melting point may mean using additives or modifiers that are environmentally questionable - 'Spanish' Tarmac may not meet UK standards in that respect. The finished road surface may not meet UK safety standards for grip / traction.


Yes, the road surfaces in Greece were shiny and slippy especially in summer. They didn't melt though. I could spin the wheels up in my dad's Merc 200 Auto away from the lights in the dry...

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Here's an interesting piece on the subject:

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as ... oad-fund/

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

with you in principle there Michel, but doesn't apply to me in practice.

I think the fastest I've ever driven my old girl is a touch over 80mph, over the course of the 75,000miles I've had her. I think top end is a quoted 105mph, and I suspect it'd get to 90mph+ but I'm never gonna try it.

Longest we ever did was Dundee in a day, on a Sunday daytime, 11hours with stops.

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by MikeT »

Read in local paper that Hampshire is sending out gritters to dust the roads this week, the idea being it will "soak up" the bitumen (to stop the tyres pulling up the tarmac) but another effect is that tyre-grip can be reduced which will undoubtedly cause a few extra accidents.

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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I've been out laying my own sand this morning (as I had some spare) and the road (what little of a road you can call it) is melting.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Heatwave and Gritters

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I think that today got a bit hotter than the tarmac manufacturers had allowed for. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when the driver called his depot!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-44726428