C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

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dafydd
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by dafydd »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 20 Nov 2023, 12:09 Totally different part. As far as racks go the C5 X7 rack variant is unique (in more ways than one with the poor quality steel / design), so not shared with any other model .
I don.t believe the steel is of poor quality - because it is integral with the pinion it has to be made of a gear steel - probably nickel-chrome. I assume that this applies to millions of racks worldwide.
Having examined my old rack, after it was replaced, the cause was differential metal corrosion. Aluminium is highly cathodic with respect to steel. So the aluminium needs a good insulating coating, some means of preventing the electrolyte (salty water) from reaching the area and perhaps a sacrificial anode in the form of a strap of zinc sheet around the exposed part of the shaft.
dafydd
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by dafydd »

Dunkah wrote: 27 Sep 2023, 20:35 Well…… my second o ring idea didn’t work 🤬🤬🤬
I have found a decent condition pair of second hand pipes on fleabay, I’ll try those in the meantime which also means I’ll have a pair spare to play with. I might give them to a high tech engineer friend of mine and get him to manufacture a pair of the ends and maybe change them a little, might get two o ring recesses cut in each, possibly make the recess a little shallower for a tighter o ring fit and get the aluminium one made out of steel. Then I’ll get pirtek to manufacture the rest of the pipe.
Why doesn’t anyone just produce new ones like they do for c4 and berlingo
Oh the fun of it!
Any news on getting replacement pipes made up?

While I am too old and decrepit to do any repairs myself, I am curious to know why the original pipes go for many years without leaks, but there is a big problem when they are removed and refitted.
Could it be that they are factory-fitted, lubricated, in perfectly clean conditions? The seal area is so small that the most minute particle or the slightest mark on the o-ring could cause a leak.

It doesn't help me, but I hope a solution can be found for other C5 X7 owners.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

dafydd wrote: 26 Nov 2023, 11:51
GiveMeABreak wrote: 20 Nov 2023, 12:09 Totally different part. As far as racks go the C5 X7 rack variant is unique (in more ways than one with the poor quality steel / design), so not shared with any other model .
I don.t believe the steel is of poor quality - because it is integral with the pinion it has to be made of a gear steel - probably nickel-chrome. I assume that this applies to millions of racks worldwide.
Having examined my old rack, after it was replaced, the cause was differential metal corrosion. Aluminium is highly cathodic with respect to steel. So the aluminium needs a good insulating coating, some means of preventing the electrolyte (salty water) from reaching the area and perhaps a sacrificial anode in the form of a strap of zinc sheet around the exposed part of the shaft.
The X7 I suspect is the exception to the rule - just look at the number of recorded faults on this forum alone for the rack, I myself was on the third rack before I let her go (2 genuine Citroen ones and one refurbished one). It is totally unheard of and before this I've never had a rack go in all my years of motoring. The X7 seems to suffer above all others on the number of failures.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
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darbuck
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by darbuck »

I finally got a second hand rack it's a bit better than the one I took out of it. There is a tiny amount of LDS in the passenger side boot but I think it will be ok for a while. Until I come up with a long term solution it will have to do the pinion was a bit crusty but hasn't gotten to the seal so wire wheel, at bit of rust converter and the mod to housing should get her on the road.
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by MattBLancs »

Fingers crossed! :)
Dunkah
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Dunkah »

Dafydd…..

I didn’t get round to sourcing a pipe manufacturer yet, unfortunately the spare pipe I bought was damaged and I didn’t have the time to go down the re manufacture route just yet, just needed my car off my friends ramp and back to the road quickly. However, I think I have had a little success in resealing my existing ones, I hesitate to congratulate myself though as I’ve only been driving it fours days since, but it’s not currently leaking and every other time they’ve leaked straight away so it seems successful at the moment.
In the past I’ve tried using a set of those green crappy o rings that are available on flea bay as a boxed set of various sizes, they seem quite soft and easy to damage, when I used oversized versions of those they got pinched on the way in and the back edge of the oring recess on the pipe would cut into them and damage them, very leaky.
The original sizes of ring I think are 7.6 and 8.7 diameters and 1.8 cross sections. I found some nitrile ones on flea bay and went for slightly smaller diameter, hoping that would mean they’d be slightly tighter on the pipe and slightly bigger cross sections so they’d be tighter in the housing. 7.5 and 8.5 diameters and 2 mm cross sections. When I fitted them they did seem tight and I was worried they’d pinch and split like the green ones so I pulled them again and they seemed fine so I refitted them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143871720437 ... 3118637669

Link to the orings attached, if the link doesn’t work could someone please let me know.

I also started looking for o rings with 2.2mm cross section, much harder to find but I did eventually find some from polymax, if the 2mm ones end up leaking I’ll try them but I fear that the extra 0.4mm might be too tight of a fit.
If the 2mm do start leaking and I try the 2.2s I’ll keep this thread up to date on it, but for now the 2mm nitriles seem to do the trick.
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by MattBLancs »

Sorry if stating the obvious, but a bit a "red rubber grease" will help them slide into place, hopefully without damage.
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by Jay-Bruce »

Darren, do yourself a favour, and put a speedisleeve on that pinion after you clean it, this will give you a clean smooth surface that should be a lot kinder to the pinion seal than wire wheeled & kurusted corroded steel. I can't remember the size off the top of my head, but there was discussion in here in this very thread IIRC about it, maybe use the search for Speedy Sleeve, or maybe Matt will mind the size he bought?
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by MattBLancs »

Jay-Bruce wrote: 01 Dec 2023, 17:58. I can't remember the size off the top of my head, but there was discussion in here in this very thread IIRC about it, maybe use the search for Speedy Sleeve, or maybe Matt will mind the size he bought?
Hang on, should be able to find it
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by MattBLancs »

Think this is what I bought (not fitted as yet)

viewtopic.php?p=748020#p748020



Edit, here's definitely what I bought, details on this post:

viewtopic.php?p=748419#p748419
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darbuck
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by darbuck »

Hi lads apologies been up to my neck the last few weeks with work my mother's heating and herself has me decorating. Weather has been crap anyway so wouldn't be getting under the car. I think I will buy a sleeve for it and fit it over the christmas.glad to hear you had some success with the pipes dunkah.
Darren
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by MattBLancs »

If you're busy, you're busy!

I've had a few car jobs to do past few weekends and it's not a lot of fun out in the weather!
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darbuck
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by darbuck »

Thanks Matt, No the weather has been very rough the last while. The mothers job was nasty there was a couple of dead birds in the header tank. Had to flush the entire system rads off and out. Done now working away grand 😃. Concentrating on decorating but the C5 is like Stockholm syndrome, I want to get away but I want to stay too.🤣🤣
Darren
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darbuck
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by darbuck »

I got the rack in tonight but need to bolt up the subframe and connect everything up in the footwell. It got too dark, the driver side rear caliper has seized so ordered got a new one but it won't take long to throw a new one in so about a day left in mechanical work half the bulbs have failed so need to replace them and then a bit of bodywork. Hopefully ready for NCT and to go on the road by the end of the Christmas break.
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

Post by MattBLancs »

Thanks for the update, glad the rack is in (again) and you sound well on top of the remaining stuff.

You are out in the weather (like me) so hope you get enough dry spells to get finished off - very frustrating being weather dependent! :)