C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

[Stickyfinger]

the rust eats its way down...........

[xantia_v6]

To me it is still rather unclear what causes the leak. The seal where the rusty pinion is seem to be more of a dust seal. If you look at the image above it is clear where the oil is supposed to circle. It has seals between every section of holes. So to me, there should not be oil at all in the area between these holes and the "dust seal". Comments?

The seals on the pinion valve are high-pressure seals, keeping the fluid in the correct chamber of the valve, it is normal for those to leak a little in operation, letting a little fluid escape into the low pressure area, where it lubricates the bearings before being returned to the tank. The shaft seal stops the low pressure fluid from escaping to the environment.

[Peter.N.]

I think its the fact that mine is leaking thereby thoroughly lubricating the seal is why the leak does not seem to be increasing - just a thought.

Peter

[jontech]

To me it is still rather unclear what causes the leak. The seal where the rusty pinion is seem to be more of a dust seal. If you look at the image above it is clear where the oil is supposed to circle. It has seals between every section of holes. So to me, there should not be oil at all in the area between these holes and the "dust seal". Comments?

The seals on the pinion valve are high-pressure seals, keeping the fluid in the correct chamber of the valve, it is normal for those to leak a little in operation, letting a little fluid escape into the low pressure area, where it lubricates the bearings before being returned to the tank. The shaft seal stops the low pressure fluid from escaping to the environment.

Sounds like a plausible explanation

[lexi]

I think its the fact that mine is leaking thereby thoroughly lubricating the seal is why the leak does not seem to be increasing - just a thought.

Peter

Are you able to live with it if it gets no worse? Get Mot when the time comes?
Who the heck manufactured this rack?

[Stickyfinger]

They (who I do not know) make it to Citroen/PSA spec. Citroen PSA should be liable

[bobins]

Are you able to live with it if it gets no worse? Get Mot when the time comes?
Who the heck manufactured this rack?

The racks are made by ZF Lenksysteme, at the time the company was 50:50 owned by ZF and Bosch, but now it's wholly owned by Bosch.





Of course, we assume that these pinion shafts are failing due to duff steel used, but what if ZF used exactly the correct grade of steel that PSA specified ? The average age of a car is well under 10 years old these days, so what if PSA wanted to fit a major (and fairly expensive) component that was only designed to last the average age of a car ?
Cynical ? Me ? Only very slightly

[white exec]

I recall that we concluded the pinion shaft needed a gaiter for weather (and road salt) protection, for long term ownership.

Now we know these items can fail if left (ex-factory) unprotected, it would seem sensible for owners with racks which haven't yet leaked to fit a suitable gaiter, and not wait for the expensive repair.

[Hell Razor5543]

A bit of plagiarism;

For the want of a gaiter the pinion shaft was lost,
For the want of a pinion shaft the steering rack was lost,
For the want of a steering rack the car was lost,
For the want of a car the job was lost,
For the want of a job the mortgage was lost,
For the want of a mortgage the home was lost,
All for the want of a gaiter.

[admiral51]

Pretty sure it is down to the enviroment that the part is being used in rather than the part itself,that is something that PSA will never admit to and they will never take the manufacturer to court if it meets the specs they supplied

[GiveMeABreak]

Don't forget the dodgy Japanese fake steel scandal that affected the automotive industry back then. This is the problem with the supply chain and second, tertiary suppliers and so forth - it makes identifying every single party in the chain and end users (the victims) very difficult and this is something I have always suspected. It cannot surely be the design as I've never had a rack go before ever.

[Peter.N.]

I was unfortunate enough to buy a CX 25 DTR Safari in the 80's for which I paid a considerable sum of money, that had a block made from dodgy steel, Indian I think, It resulted in the head gasket failing about every 15k and I did over 150k in it, that was a lot of head gaskets.

It was such a brilliant car that I put up with it and it wasn't very difficult to change as anyone who has had one will know. I got the head removal time down to about 20 minutes, took a bit longer to put back as you had to adjust the tappets.

I changed the head twice then took the block out and had it machined, made no difference, the block was porous. I was doing about 30k per year in those days so that was a gasket every 6 months.

I seem to have a similar scenario with the C5, I am prepared to put up with its foibles because there is no other car, at least that I have found that rides like the C5. I'm in the process of trying to change the thermostat but they seem to have built the car round it.

Peter

[white exec]

I was wondering whether a 3D printed purpose-designed gaiter for the X7 pinion might be possible, and whether anyone here could tackle it? Ideally it should encase the original side 'lump'.

A 3D scan of the relevant bit of the rack might establish the internals of a gaiter, together with a specified wall thickness. Polyurethane? I'm no expert on this.

[Nico1981]

Just wanted to share my modification. I've used a cv boot to protect the pinion shaft. I'll let you know in 12 months if its worked but can't see why it won't.

[Peter.N.]

I was thinking something along those lines, it has to be allowed to rotate one end of course. I am still topping mine up - vary rarely, used less that a litre since I got it in august. The other one doesn't leak but the steering is heavier. On the red one I assume the light steering is because of the slackness of the seal and super lubrication its receiving, I prefer it like that.

Peter