C5 X7 Steering Rack - Again!

[GiveMeABreak]

There's nothing I have about getting that off as it's not a Citroen serviceable item - they just replace / exchange them, so there is no information on removing them - but that video should help.

[jontech]

Ok, thanks. The video is helpful. I watched it and trying to remove the pinion in the same way, but it won't come of. Maybe it is just a matter of trying, I will do a later attempt.

Backround to the whole operation is I one morning noticed that the steering was suddenly hard. And the steering wheel did not go back to center. I examined every parts of the steering, including the electric pump, and it eventually came down do beeing related to the rack (no leaks however). So, bought a referbished rack locally from a guy who had refurbished a leaking rack, replacing the pinion and all seals in the rack. Only that he had mounted the pinion rotated 90 degrees to the left, which I noticed only when I had the rack mounted on the car. Wheel alignment is impossible with this offset, so now I am considering trying to undo the pinion from inside the car, lift it and rotate it in the correct position. But I want to be sure how it is done, so I am now "practicing" removing the pinion from the old rack. Will also try to inspect to see what caused the hard steering in the first place. So there is my story.... Thanks for your help!

[Sloppysod]

Mmmmm. Interesting...... Wrong rack.....
When I changed my rack two years ago, the first rack was stiff, so much so it would not self centre, after persevering for a few weeks I contacted the seller and was told that he used the wrong seal, I took that rack off, took it back and he 'swapped' the seal, then once i refitted the rack I could not track it, to get the wheels almost correct I had to have one track rod end held on by about 2 threads and the steering wheel was about 90° out. So I complained to the seller and they will refunded me and I kept the rack, which I still have in the loft of my garage. I then bought a rack from a chap in Cornwall, fitted it and everything is hunky-dory, no problems, light steering that self centre's. I know this guy still has another rack if you are interested.
So going back to my original comment, you have been given the wrong rack.

Information Edit:- To rotate the input shaft by 90 degrees there needs to me only 4 teeth on the shaft, but something somewhere that makes me believe there are 5 or 6 teeth. (72 or 60 degrees).

[jontech]

Interesting experiences, Stu.

I have managed to get the pinion out of the old shaft to inspect it. There are 8 teeth on it so one is 45 degrees. Which means that mine, currently mounted on the car, is two teeth offset. Also, if I inspect the holes in the pinion where the oil is supposed to circulate through, these seem to have a very thought-out position, meaning that offset of these holes would probably have impact on the steering itself, possibly hindering it to center. I need to verify this though. After fitting the refurbished rack I noticed that the steering wheel started spinning by itself, without me touching it at all. It continued to do this for a while, I think till the steering wheel angle sensor disconnected itself. To conclude, the hypothesis is that the pinion needs to be inserted correctly if the steering should work. Maybe that was the fault you had Stu (and not the seals)?

The plan is no to try to lift is and rotate the pinion into the correct position to see if that solves the problem.

Also noticed from the old pinion that is was not very rusty and the seals seemed intact. So the original problem was probably due to something else than rusty pinion.

PS. Live in Sweden so my steerig wheel is on the left side.

[Sloppysod]

I hope your are right, and I will await your progress as, as I said I have one in the loft of my garage that is 90 degrees out (ish).
two things, while you are dealing with the rack, I would advise doing the boot mod, see my post....viewtopic.php?p=550057#p550057,.
Also, I had to reset my steering wheel angle sensor. using a Diagbox, this is fairly easy to do but you do need to drive straight for about 200(ish) metres without moving the steering wheel while plugged in.
Simply put, what I believe it does is, using information from all wheels (ABS Sensors) & the steering wheel, 'tells' the car this is what straight is.
Good luck
Stu

[jontech]

Thanks, will keep you updated. Will be some week before I have time to look it though

[jontech]

So managed to do some work today on the car. Rotated the pinion in it's correct position, so became aligned correctly with the steering wheel. Now all problems dissaperad. Steering is now self-centering, the angle sensor works as it should and ESP fault does not show anymore. Did not have to do a calibration of the sensor either. So, all good! I would strongly advise you did the same on yours, Stu.

[Peter.N.]

Re the steering weight, I have noticed that the one with the leaking pinion seal is noticeably lighter to steer than the one I have just bought which doesn't leak, so I suspect that the additional 'heaviness' is down to friction from the seal, so I will just keep topping it up, uses very little fluid.

Peter

[KennyW]

Peter,

Have you replaced your rack ?

Kenny

[Peter.N.]

No Kenny, it looses very little fluid and the steering is lighter than on the one that doesn't leak so I will keep topping it up.. I like it.

Peter

[GiveMeABreak]

It’ll only get worse - probably in quite a short space of time once the seal has deformed due to the pinion rust I expect - assuming it’s from there. But you may also get air in the circuit...

[Peter.N.]

I expect I will have to do it sometime Marc but we did over 1000 miles round Yorkshire in September and only used about an eggcup full and I have only topped it up once since. I bought a litre of fluid in August when I bought the car and there is still plenty left. Don't know about the MOT in February but my chap is pretty reasonable.

Peter

[Stickyfinger]

Pre MOT, clean area fully and wrap a rag around it for the MoT

[Peter.N.]

... and steam clean it before I take it in. Its only wet not dripping so hope he will pass it.

Peter

[jontech]

To me it is still rather unclear what causes the leak. The seal where the rusty pinion is seem to be more of a dust seal. If you look at the image above it is clear where the oil is supposed to circle. It has seals between every section of holes. So to me, there should not be oil at all in the area between these holes and the "dust seal". Comments?