Oops!

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CitroJim
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Re: Oops!

Post by CitroJim »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 17:05
...are these the same 'someones' who walk or use a Bicycle where possible for short journeys;


I could be labelled as one of them but rest assured I do it for totally different reasons ;)

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Michel
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Re: Oops!

Post by Michel »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 17:05
I don't believe all this propaganda about Diesels, it seems that, as usual, someone's jumped on a band-wagon and chosen to be a Sheep....


What propaganda? It's clear as day that the things are filthy and stink - older ones at least. I've just bought an 04 plate Multipla JTD. Standing around it this morning while it was ticking over as I deiced it I was genuinely shocked by how bad the fumes smelt and how much grot comes out compared to the petrol C1 (which does similar mpg) and the 1.8 Petrol Picasso. I think it'll be sold very soon. Foul it is!

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van ordinaire
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Re: Oops!

Post by van ordinaire »

A couple of points worth bearing in mind:-
the environmental damage is done once any car is made, regardless of the means of propulsion.
diesel engines don't cause pollution, the fuel they were desidned to run on does - there ARE alternatives!
how can shipping buses from China be environmentally sound?

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bobins
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Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

I was watching a bit on the news the other night and they were highlighting how 'business' flows around Europe. They featured a humble car engine crankshaft and the route it takes from manufacture to fitting in an engine. Basically, it criss-crosses Europe several times before it's finally fitted to the engine. I'm sure the manufacturers can show all sorts of paperwork and ticked boxes to prove it's an environmentally sound way to make and engine..... I'm sure the reality is somewhat different though :roll:

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white exec
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Re: Oops!

Post by white exec »

van ordinaire wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 21:46
How can shipping buses from China be environmentally sound?
That would make a superb A-level science/economics question!
I think it rather depends on the perspective and standpoint: where is the pollution produced, and what is the local impact, and the local environmental benefit?
It does seem a crying shame that "the country that leads the world" cannot even manage to build something as simple as an electric bus. It's not as if we never knew how to do it, and it isn't rocket science. Perhaps we're just waiting for the Chinese to set up their UK plant?

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bobins
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Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

white exec wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 22:01

It does seem a crying shame that "the country that leads the world" cannot even manage to build something as simple as an electric bus. It's not as if we never knew how to do it, and it isn't rocket science. Perhaps we're just waiting for the Chinese to set up their UK plant?


I think we could easily make a superb electric bus, the problem is that we've not got a hope in hell of making it cheap enough. In the end, money is the most important thing..... it shouldn't be, but it is.

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Re: Oops!

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I came across an example of a big locomotive contract from back in the 1990's, a bit controversial at the time, following privatisdation of British Rail freight operations in 1996. The Group EWS acquired under their control 93% of UK Rail Freight, and placed a contract with North American based EMU for 250 locomotives, which they judged to be more reliable, and have lower major rebuild costs, and longer time periods between rebuilds than comparable locomotives available in the UK.

So the locomotives were produced at EMU's plant at London Ontario Canada and shipped on completion at the rate of 11 per week to Newport Docks, commisssioned virtually on leaving the ship and put into service.

Intuitively, you would expect that with the UK's history of constructing rail locomotives, that the price and specification could have been met by a UK manufacturer, and the price advantage of not having to ship 250 heavy Locomotives thousands of miles by sea from Canada should surely have given them the edge.

I wonder if Shipping Costs must just be too cheap! Ditto with the import of cars/buses/ bits of locos to be assembled in the uk. Surely it must cost a fortune to ship these items from the far east to the UK.

Regards Neil

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bobins
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Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 22:24

I wonder if Shipping Costs must just be too cheap! Ditto with the import of cars/buses/ bits of locos to be assembled in the uk. Surely it must cost a fortune to ship these items from the far east to the UK.

Regards Neil


There's probably a tax dodge / government subsidy / creative accountancy that caters for the shipping cost :?

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Re: Oops!

Post by MikeT »

I wonder how the last few days would have panned out without diesel engines.

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Sloppysod
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Re: Oops!

Post by Sloppysod »

white exec wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 09:06
............. If Toyota and VW aren't careful, they'll end up simply being leapfrogged by BYD - and that may be no bad thing..........

Good point Chris, once I found out who/what BYD was.

BYD = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Oops!

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Sloppysod wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 13:03

Good point Chris, once I found out who/what BYD was.


Embrionic topic started on China's Car Companies-What do you know? for me not much at the moment, but its a decent receptacle for finding out more.

Regards Neil

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bobins
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Re: Oops!

Post by bobins »

MikeT wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 12:21
I wonder how the last few days would have panned out without diesel engines.



Presumably all BEVs are more than capable of keeping occupants of a stranded car warm overnight (5-8 hours ?) and drive to a charging point when the road gets cleared ? Serious question - by the way ! I've no idea what sort of charge the various heating / aircons take out of the batteries. Anyone able to put some figures to it regarding heating the inside of the car vs range attrition ? Is it actually so small that it's of no concern ?

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EDC5
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Re: Oops!

Post by EDC5 »

bobins wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 19:43
MikeT wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 12:21
I wonder how the last few days would have panned out without diesel engines.



Presumably all BEVs are more than capable of keeping occupants of a stranded car warm overnight (5-8 hours ?) and drive to a charging point when the road gets cleared ? Serious question - by the way ! I've no idea what sort of charge the various heating / aircons take out of the batteries. Anyone able to put some figures to it regarding heating the inside of the car vs range attrition ? Is it actually so small that it's of no concern ?


Depends on how the heat is produced.

If it's via a heat pump (like the Nissan Leaf ) then it shouldn't be too bad but if it's from direct resistance heating (like Citroen C-Zero) then you'll quickly burn through the battery charge.

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: Oops!

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 22:24
EWS placed a contract with North American based EMU for 250 locomotives, which they judged to be more reliable, and have lower major rebuild costs, and longer time periods between rebuilds than comparable locomotives available in the UK.

I wonder if Shipping Costs must just be too cheap! Ditto with the import of cars/buses/ bits of locos to be assembled in the uk. Surely it must cost a fortune to ship these items from the far east to the UK.
there's certainly some weird stuff going on with the railways when stuff like that is true. What happened to our industry?!

I was watching something or other a while back where one of the largest modern container ships was mentioned; its capacity was simply mind-boggling and apparently the cost of transporting a DVD Player by sea from China, worked out at less than 2 first class stamps. Similarly, I used to know the cost of transporting a 505 Estate (sizeable beastie) UK to Africa, a few years back; I don't recall for sure now, but I got an idea it was only about £400.

I noted with some sadness, on a completely different scale, that two different UK eBay'ers failed to deliver me a simple windscreen mount, causing much irritation, but one China-man sent it no problem: delivery takes a couple of weeks, but increasingly, I seem to get better service from the Far East; doesn't make me happy to say it, but its true.

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CitroJim
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Re: Oops!

Post by CitroJim »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 18:01
I was watching something or other a while back where one of the largest modern container ships was mentioned; its capacity was simply mind-boggling and apparently the cost of transporting a DVD Player by sea from China, worked out at less than 2 first class stamps.
Economy of scale... Quite amazing really but it's the reason, after questionable quality in some instances, why Far Eastern stuff is so cheap...

Cars have always been expensivew to ship.. I had a Metro shipped home from Cyprus in the 80s and it cost roughly what that 505 did - around a quarter of it's value! It's because a car needs a container of its own generally - maybe two can share - so you're paying for the whole container whereas you can stuff several thousand DVD players in one container...
Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 18:01
I noted with some sadness, on a completely different scale, that two different UK eBay'ers failed to deliver me a simple windscreen mount, causing much irritation, but one China-man sent it no problem: delivery takes a couple of weeks, but increasingly, I seem to get better service from the Far East; doesn't make me happy to say it, but its true.


That is a terrible situation... I must admit I've never had such a problem but I get the feeling a lot of eBay sellers are based in the Far East but with large stocks ready to ship already in the UK.. Their PayPal names tend to suggest that might be the case...

No doubt they have a certain work ethic and wish to succeed with great customer satisfaction even if some of the stuff they shift, in all good faith I'm sure, is of very questionable quality...

As an example, see my post about some audio leads I bought the other day... The service was exemplary, the price very keen but the goods were utter rubbish and good only for the bin.