Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

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white exec
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by white exec »

I had an Aisin auto box in my mid-'90s company 1.6 Vectra 'Arctic'. My brother-in-law still has ditto in his now really old Astra auto estate. Superb boxes, reliable, smooth changes, long-lived.
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moizeau
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by moizeau »

An oil cooler of a motorbike would work also, with the added advantage that they are very robust. They have no secondary protection and are completely exposed to the elements.
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white exec
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by white exec »

A good choice of oil coolers and fittings here...
https://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/Oil-Coolers.html.

I have a Setrab Proline STD fitted to our XM 2.5 as engine oil cooler*, and mounted up-front ahead of the other radiators. Has been on the car for 11 years now. Braided pipework and sandwich (take-off) plate from the same folk.
* replacing the unreliable aluminium Valeo water-oil heat exchanger
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EDC5
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by EDC5 »

Time for an update I think gents.

Unfortunately I've had a lot on outside of X7 ownership and a fair few maintaince jobs have crept up on me... whilst this project isn't maintainance in the strictest sense, I have always felt the need to do it!

After 2 years of planning this project I actually got around to fitting the sandwich plate and oil filter to my AM6.

First was the mounting of the filter head somewhere out of the way. On the X7 if you don't have the webasto diesel fired water heater then there is a large cavity aft of the passenger's side wheel where it can be mounted.

I attached the filter head to a piece of metal to form a bracket and this could then hang from an existing bolt without having to make any new holes in the car.

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The filter head I chose takes a variety of spin-on filters. I have sourced a couple of hydraulic transmission filters which are different to engine oil filters as they don't have one-way valves in them.

After mounting the head, I tackled the sandwich plate. I jacked the front of the car up as much as possible and lowered the back down too in order to minimise the amount of oil that would come out. After slackening the oil cooler bolt, only a trickle of oil came out, barely more than the internal volume of the heat exchanger I would guess... which was a relief.

Once I'd removed the bolt from the original oil cooler, I had to transfer the washers and O ring over to the longer replacement bolt that came with the sandwich plate. I oiled all O rings and reattached the oil cooler with sandwich plate in place and torques the bolt up to 42NM:

Here is a view from below and above:

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Initially I just joined both the inlet and outlet of the sandwich plate together with the length of hose and started the engine to check for any catastrophic leaks....

Then I cut the hose half way and had a friend start the engine to see which hose was the feed and which hose was return. I allowed the gearbox to pump out nearly 2L of its own oil into a measuring jug.

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After that, I made the connections to the filter mount noting the correct oil feed direction:

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And finally, I prefilled the filter with new ATF and installed it, then refilled the box with the exact amount of oil that came out when the cooler was removed, plus, how much I pumped out, which was 2L.

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So, time will tell if this filter will help matters but it feels good to have finally executed this plan after nearly 2 years of thinking about it!

Next step is fitting a thermostatically controlled radiator to aid cooling....
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Nicely done Elis - I'm sure there will be a few others with the AM6 boxes interested in this - especially David after his recent AM6 escapades!
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EDC5
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by EDC5 »

Thanks Marc, yes hopefully this will be a learning experience when I cut the filter open after a few thousand miles to see what has been collected.

Once I install the separate oil cooling radiator there may be an argument for disconnecting the oil/water heat exchanger completely to prevent it failing at some point in the future.
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by DHallworth »

Interesting work. I ended up just buying a new oil cooler from Citroen for my C6 and fitting a used one to my 407 whilst I figure out if it's going to last.

David.
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EDC5
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by EDC5 »

DHallworth wrote:
07 Jan 2020, 11:44
Interesting work. I ended up just buying a new oil cooler from Citroen for my C6 and fitting a used one to my 407 whilst I figure out if it's going to last.

David.
Fair enough, the same place I bought my adaptor plate from now do the non sandwich version. If I was buying again, I'd be doing this and removing the water heat exchanger completely!

https://www.trancool.com/transmission_a ... round.html

My next step is to find a thermostatically controlled oil radiator. I've got a plan but am still waiting for hose fittings to arrive.
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by EDC5 »

I have now concluded this project by fitting the thermostatically controlled radiator.

The radiator I sourced was originally fitted to a Mercedes A or B class:

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As can be seen, on the one side of the radiator is a thermostat module. This will bypass the rad if the temperature is below the threshold of the wax pellet actuator.

Originally, the wax pellet actuator in the radiator was a 95°C. I think this is a bit too high personally. I found out that Volkswagen use a similar thermostat only they opted for a 75°C opening temperature for their transmission coolers. For this reason, I got hold of a 75°C wax actuator and swapped it over.

The next challenge was sourcing some fittings so that I could attach to my 10mm pipe. After some experimentation, I found out that the thread in the thermostat housing is M14x1.5 and uses an O ring ahead of the thread to seal. It proved very difficult finding such a hose barb with a 3/8" hose tail and a groove to hold an O ring, however after some persistence I sourced a pair of fittings.

I then made a small bracket and assembled the modified thermostat with fittings onto the rad:

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Next was the mounting. Ideally the radiator would be mounted up front in the grille however I opted to install it behind the intercooler. Due to making use of an existing hole on the frame and radiator bracket I had to rotate the radiator 180°.

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Here's a final shot taken from the wheel arch looking forward showing the filter and mount as well as the oil cooler in the background.

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Findings:

Since this external oil cooler is plumbed in after the factory fit oil heat exchanger, it would only really be used if the oil leaving the factory fit cooler was still hot.

Initially I took the car for a spirited drive including a few sections of steep uphill at slow speeds as this would generate a lot of heat in the torque converter. The radiator was red hot along its entire length... so at least it was working. I then drove on a dual carriageway for a few miles before pulling over and feeling the radiator once again. This time only the first 6 inches of the radiator closest to the thermostat were hot, the rest of it was cool; so, it appeared the thermostat was regulating the temperature well :)

I have since driven whilst monitoring the gearbox temperature with diagbox. The temperature rises steadily until almost exactly 75°C, thereafter it very slowly creeps up to 80°C and then oscillates between 76°C and 78°C which is perfect! I really should have taken the same measurements before adding the cooler for comparison, but it looks like the thermostat is regulating the oil temperature well.
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by Stickyfinger »

Nice work....well done working it all out....2 years , about the same time I have been mucking about with my Xantia headlamp conversion :)
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moizeau
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by moizeau »

Nice work Elis. Good choice of temp as well compared to the original. I'd guess that PSA think that between 58 and 68 is optimum as this is the figure quoted when setting the level. How much extra oil did it need, and if I may ask, how much were all the bits?
I'm doing the second 7 litre partial change on mine tomorrow, it's done 10k since the last (first) one.
I found this oil, correct specs and the replacement for the Mannol oil

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303081768970

At this price there is no reason to be tight with changes.
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EDC5
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by EDC5 »

Thanks :)

Yeah, 2 years that has been rattling around my mind! A very cathartic experience to finally get it done and on the car. I'm wondering what my next project will be :-D

I'm not sure on what the ideal temperature is for the gearbox, all I know is that it will now run a lot cooler compared to the stock cooler, there appears to be no temperature regulation with the stock setup.

In terms of extra oil, I think in its current state it is about 1.5L more. The radiator and filter held about a litre between them and the pipe's internal volume probably adds up to 500ml. In the future I will be replacing the filter with and oversized one with a big internal volume as I think the more volume of oil in the circuit the longer it will last.

I haven't added up the cost yet but I wouldn't call it a super cheap mod overall, probably not worth it but it’s been a fun experience.

That's a good price for compatible oil, make sure to take a pic of the oil colour when you drain it.

I've noticed that since fitting the filter the car is definitely smoother when cold. There used to be a little shuddering when crawling in 1st as you released the accelerator, that appears to have gone now.
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moizeau
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by moizeau »

Tried today, but the level plug 'plug' torx 40 (220848) rounded off, so didn't go any further. Whilst I was under there I noticed a water leak from the heat exchanger under the driver's seat. I can't find a reference to it on service box, any ideas? I will start a tread on it and order a new plug.

Admin Edit
Pete's new thread on this here to keep this on topic:

viewtopic.php?p=634175#p634175
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EDC5
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by EDC5 »

Ah that's a pain! I've had jobs like that where the first step goes immediately wrong... I take it as a sign from the universe not to persist for that day :lol:
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moizeau
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Re: Aisin TF-80 / AM6 oil, cooler and filter modification project.

Post by moizeau »

Yeah, thought it was a good excuse to watch the rugby and have a beer