Everyone go buy a dashcam

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MikeT
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by MikeT »

Homer wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 09:06
MikeT wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 19:13
I'm really not getting this, what is the proposed alternative that Gary could have taken to avoid this collision?


Are we talking about the video in the opening post? Simply by not being alongside the other car. It doesn't matter how busy the traffic is you can spare a car's length.

Roadcraft makes the premise that you will never be involved in an accident you could not have avoided. I wouldn't go that far but it's always good to say could I have anticipated that happening and made a slight change to avoid it.


I get "best defence is, no be there" but the purpose of dual lanes is...?

Gibbo2286
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Gibbo2286 »

To let the faster guys pass the slow ones MikeT............... :-D but not on the inside!

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Mandrake
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Mandrake »

Michel wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 13:50
wheeler wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 13:41
I would say the CRV was 100% at fault here, they should have stayed in their lane when exiting the roundabout, there is plenty of road ahead & they shouldn't have changed lane without checking mirrors/blind spot to check it was clear before moving into it.


I disagree and think it's 50-50 at best. The CRV is ahead, the OP then passes him on the left which you're not supposed to do, and the CRV is simply moving left out of the path of the faster black car, which he is supposed to do. If anything the CRV driver didn't anticipate someone under taking and pulled left into them. 50-50 or the fault of the undertaker.

I can't even believe you're saying this. In no way is the OP at fault in this incident. :roll:

In a two lane roundabout - which this one clearly was (many are not marked as such but are used as if they are, which can get dicey...) you can either have a single lane exit or a dual lane exit.

If it had have been a single lane exit then the car on the right would have been at fault because the car in the outer (left) lane has priority to use the exit, plain and simple. It's up to the right hand car to fall back and merge behind.

But given that it is a dual lane exit the car on the right is STILL at fault, because they changed lanes unsafely and clearly without looking. :roll: They had an exit lane of their own to use, and they are required to stay within their lane as they leave the roundabout, not cut across lanes during the exit. They had absolutely zero reason to change lanes right at the exit of the roundabout, they were cutting lanes pure and simple. People do it all the time, and this time they got caught out.

On any road a car that is changing lanes is responsible for ensuring the safety of the lane change - not the car minding its own business staying in its own lane.

"Undertaking" as an excuse is nonsense - undertaking is coming up behind someone on a multilane road, passing them on the left then returning to the same lane. At no time did the OP stray from the left lane.

Undertaking is covered in rule 268 of the motorway code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 253-to-273
Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
"Do not" is only a recommendation not a law, if it was a law it would say you "must not" overtake on the left, not "do not" overtake on the left. This distinction in terminology is covered in the introduction to the highway code.

This advice not to pass on the left is also specifically part of the motorway code and thus not applicable at this roundabout as it was a roundabout and dual carriage-way. There is nothing in the road code that says you can't pass on the left on a roundabout or dual carriage way.

There is no 50/50 about this - the car on the right is 100% to blame and apart from slamming on the brakes there is not much the OP could have done to avoid it, and if he was focusing ahead looking for crossing pedestrians he may not have noticed the car beside him merging into him until too late.

I've had this kind of merging incident nearly happen to me a few times lately, the most recent instance was a dual lane roundabout with a single lane exit (no marked merging area) where I was in the outer/left lane of the roundabout, indicating left to exit the roundabout with plenty of warning (about 5 seconds) and I had a large white van to my right on the inner lane whose nose was about level with my back door all the way across the roundabout, as I started leaving the roundabout he started honking his horn at me and then started angrily flashing his lights at me further up the road as if I was doing something wrong. :roll:

A complete idiot - (1) I was ahead of him the whole time and I did not accelerate past him on the left (not that it would have mattered) (2) I indicated my intention to exit the roundabout for 5 seconds, (3) I have priority in the outside lane to use the single lane exit even if he was level with me let alone when he is a 2-3 metres back.

If he's trying to exit from the inner lane onto a single lane exit its up to him to check to his left before doing what is effectively a lane change - and if someone is there he needs to drop back and merge behind them. It's not rocket science! :evil:

MikeT
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by MikeT »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 11:50
To let the faster guys pass the slow ones MikeT............... :-D but not on the inside!


Correct... if I had asked, what is "overtake"? :-D

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Mandrake
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Mandrake »

white exec wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 18:21
The only safe way to take a UK roundabout is to ensure that you are in the right-hand lane in good time to leave it on the right. Leaving an occupied roundabout from a centre or left lane is always risky, because it fails to take into account those to your right who may have other ideas.
I have to say I am very surprised at this piece of advice, given a choice I would rather not exit using the right hand lane (of a two lane roundabout anyway) as you then have the issue that someone in the left lane coming up behind you may be intending to continue around the roundabout - which if they have only just entered the roundabout to go straight across they are perfectly entitled to do! Crossing the roundabout they are usually allowed to choose either lane unless lane markings dictate otherwise.

If you then turn in front of them to exit from the middle lane while they are trying to continue around the outside lane they will run into your side or rear corner and you will be at fault for an unsafe lane change... [-X

If I have to exit a two lane roundabout from the inside lane I always behave as if the roundabout is a single lane one and get in behind anyone who may be near me in the other lane in case they do continue around - it's the only safe way to do it. But given a choice I'll prefer to exit from the outside lane if there are no lane guidance lines for exits.

Roundabouts that have spiral guidance lines where each lane has a specific exit is a different situation to a roundabout where there are just two circular lanes with no exit guidance.
The way you took that roundabout was a gamble, and a failure on your part to adequately anticipate. In this case, the gamble didn't pay off. Worth learning from.

I can't agree that what he did was a gamble - nothing wrong at all with what he did, the only thing I would have done differently is probably held back a bit further from the other car and been ready to hit the brakes if they did something stupid - which does happen from time to time. But there's no doubt that the other car is in the wrong for an unsafe lane change. If you change lanes and hit someone that is right there staying in their own lane its because you didn't wait until you had a clear view that it was safe, and it's never safe to cut across lanes on a roundabout exit, always wait until you are fully off the roundabout and going straight ahead a few car lengths up the road before considering a lane change...

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Michel
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Michel »

Mandrake wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 12:26


I've had this kind of merging incident nearly happen to me a few times lately,


"A few times"? Is there something wrong with your ability to learn how to anticipate what other road users might do then?

It's never happened to me in 28 years of driving, most of the time in the South East.

wheeler
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by wheeler »

How about (just for fun) putting up a poll on the thread ? 8-)
Fault, non fault or 50/50 ?
I just don't believe that the OP is at fault for one minute, would be interesting to get an overall view.

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Mandrake
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Mandrake »

Michel wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 13:43
Mandrake wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 12:26


I've had this kind of merging incident nearly happen to me a few times lately,


"A few times"? Is there something wrong with your ability to learn how to anticipate what other road users might do then?
Err, there's nothing wrong with my ability to anticipate other road users - I've had one accident that was my fault (ran off the road and didn't hit anyone on a metal road in the country) and one that wasn't my fault in 25 years of driving, both of those when I was about 17-18. So not a single accident even a slight bump in the last 23 years. So I'd say my ability to anticipate other drivers is pretty good thanks very much. :roll:

When I say it has "nearly happened" I mean that I've been in a similar situation where the driver in the right lane has done a dangerous cut right in front of me and I've anticipated it enough to avoid being hit, usually by braking.
It's never happened to me in 28 years of driving, most of the time in the South East.

So in 28 years you've never had someone cut dangerously in front of you with no warning ? Really ? Yeah, I believe that.... :roll:

I take the motorway to work and I see idiotic, dangerous driving and lane changing in front of me every single day, and if I wasn't being defensive in my driving I would have had one of these clowns slam into me long before now...

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white exec
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by white exec »

Mandrake wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 13:29
white exec wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 18:21
The only safe way to take a UK roundabout is to ensure that you are in the right-hand lane in good time to leave it on the right. Leaving an occupied roundabout from a centre or left lane is always risky, because it fails to take into account those to your right who may have other ideas.
I have to say I am very surprised at this piece of advice . . .
Simon, I'm not surprised you're suprised by my statement above.
It's absolute nonsense!
It refers to the roundabouts I traverse most of the time: Spanish ones!
Sorry for the daft mistake.

What it should have warned against were the risks of leaving a UK roundabout from a right-hand (inner) lane. Any 'weaving' or lane changing should be done in good time ahead of the desired exit, or not done at all in the case of small roundabouts, where you need to arrive at it in a left-hand lane.

crapday69
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by crapday69 »

If i'm crossing the road at a pedestrian crossing and its at the green man, halfway across a car jumps the red light. Who's fault is it that i'm now in hospital, the car that jumped the red light and hit me, or my fault for not anticipating that a car would jump a red light and hit me while i'm crossing at the green man. I can the the policeman handcuffing me to the bed so I cant get away. :rofl2:

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bobins
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by bobins »

Ah, but if you'd followed the advanced pedestrian controlled crossing manual - I believe it's called Pelicancraft - then you'd have known that you're only supposed to cross from the other side of the road and at a much slower pace. Therefore you'd have been nowhere near the car when it went about it's entirely predictable and reasonable business of jumping the red light. It's your own fault you know :rofl2:

Gibbo2286
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Gibbo2286 »

My old friend's mother used to say "Cross at the Zebra crossing, if you get knocked down it won't hurt."

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by Stickyfinger »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 18:47
My old friend's mother used to say "Cross at the Zebra crossing, if you get knocked down it won't hurt."


But you have to step over all that striped poo on the ground !

lexi
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by lexi »

In 45 years I have only had 2 cars run into me from behind.
If my anticipation was better, I could have left the cars at home both times. :lol:

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bobins
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Re: Everyone go buy a dashcam

Post by bobins »

lexi wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 22:07
In 45 years I have only had 2 cars run into me from behind.
If my anticipation was better, I could have left the cars at home both times. :lol:



Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing...... :wink: