What a pothole does

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daviemck2006
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by daviemck2006 »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 09:30
Stickyfinger wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 09:24
Damp/Salts/Frost damage


Got it in one Alisdair, and Spain ain't all that wonderful for its roads in my experience, then of course there's the fact that drivers should be driving in accordance with the prevailing road conditions to avoid such damage, :) sorry daviemck2006 :-D

I suppose I shouldnt have been doing 120 mph on an unsurfaced farm track :mrgreen: :lol:
Seriously though, I was following a coach, on a road and corner that i drive quite regularly, so a new pothole, and i saw it at the last second. I should go have a look at it and take photos and measure it before I head for the roads department. Im away to head for a scrappy who has a 17" steelie with a tyre I can have for 25 quid. If it fits over the calipers that will do as a spacesaver get me home thing, then I may go and see if a wheel refurbisher can weld the 1/2 inch crack on the one which was my spare and get a new uniroyal. That will keep me mobile, and even if the council buys me a new wheel and tyre I will get the good of the tyre I buy in the future. That seems the cheapest option just now.

Zel, I love the persely scrappy, you go in and have a good rummage to see if there is anything useful, and with no cars stacked up its great. Kinnoir at Huntly also lets you rummage, but the cars are often stacked up so it can become a little dodgy at times.

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Mandrake
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Mandrake »

white exec wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 08:52
Potholes are virtually unknown here in Spain, despite temperature extremes (and rainfall in the north) that exceed anything found in Britain. Occasional patch repairs seem to last indefinitely, and don't fall out soon after they're put in.
#-o Tell me that the tarmac in the UK isn't substandard stuff, eagerly sold and agreed on by all the manufacturers - a fabulous and incessant source of income from cash-strapped local authorities. I've watched Spanish road repair guys at work, and I can tell you their level of preparation and skill is nothing special, but I'm guessing the black stuff is. One for the Public Accounts Committee, maybe.

It's the same in New Zealand Chris - there are the odd potholes here and there but nothing like the epidemic proportions in Scotland - which are large both in size and in numbers. [-X

I know that salt and freezing cycles often get the blame but I don't buy it. It's got to be a combination of the material used and the propensity to always just "patch patch patch" until you have patches on patches, rather than just rip up the top few inches and re-lay it wholesale.

Here in Scotland at least the roads get dug up constantly to lay pipes with no apparent communication between different interested parties such as water, sewage, gas, cable TV or electricity companies. No sooner is one conduit buried with a patch of seal and another strip is being cut out by a digger for something else nearby. Soon enough the roads (and the pavements!) look like they have been strip mined and hastily filled in.

All of these joins in the surface must surely work loose with the constant application of force by heavy vehicles, and once there is a small crack that water can get into and freeze the crack will expand. But I hasten to point out that these freezing cycles can only get a foothold if the surface is broken to begin with, the water can't magically get below the surface of a smooth piece of road!

Another possible factor is poor drainage causing subsidence leading to cracking. Again, road drainage is really poor here in Scotland. There is no split camber on most roads, (with a slight peak in the middle to help get the water to both sides) no troughs at the side of the road to help channel water along into the storm water gratings, and when it does find its way to them they are blocked and overflowing. In my area I see the same drains flooding out onto the road every time it rains more than a smidgen - year after year. Nothing ever gets done about it.

Contrast this to the roads in New Zealand - nearly all roads are apexed with a slight rise along the white line and a definite slope towards the gutter on either side to prevent build up of standing water on the road surface, the curb is much higher than UK curbs with a trough line depression along the edge of the road, together forming a very effective water channel along the edge of the road, and the storm water drains seem to have a much greater capacity.

It rains less frequently in NZ but there is about twice the monthly rainfall in mm so when it does rain it rains at least 4x harder than the drizzle we get in the UK, and is sometimes a tropical downpour, and yet the storm water drains on the side of the road rarely get overwhelmed.

The road surface itself is almost always bitumen tarmac rather than the hard stuff they seem to use here in the UK. Ironically this can be a problem in summer as it's not unknown for the bitumen to become sticky on a very hot summer day! :twisted: I would have thought bitumen tarmac would be ideal here in the UK with slightly cooler temperatures, and I have seen it used in some places like new stretches of motorway like the new M8, but it is rarely used on city streets where potholes are a menace.

Finally in NZ there seems to be a mentality of just rip it up and resurface it rather than just wait and let it crumble and then grudgingly fill potholes with patches as cheap as you can. I remember the main road near where I used to live was ripped up and completely resurfaced 3 times in about 10 years that I lived in the area, and each time they did it the surface of the road seemed fine to me before they started replacing it! They would replace a section about 500 metres long at a time and get it all done in a couple of weeks and without too much disruption to traffic. Pretty proactive really.

And in cases where there was significant construction work being done to lay new pipes etc there might be a temporary patch on for a few weeks but like clockwork a road gang with a roller etc would come along and resurface the entire road width along the affected area rather than leave it as patches.

Like a lot of other urban decay, you'll only ever get high quality roads if you are proactive about maintaining them and replacing them rather than being reactionary and waiting until you get complaints from motorists who are breaking wheels on potholes...

Many roads in the UK are unfortunately at what I would consider 3rd world standards... it does vary a lot with area though - some more northern parts of Scotland towards the Highlands do seem to have much nicer road surfaces than around my bit...

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Mandrake
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 12:23
CitroJim wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 11:48
Is there any truth is the belief that if the pothole in question has been marked out with aerosol spray paint to indicate the council is aware and that it's earmarked for repair absolves said council from any liability?


I think it's rather the other way around, Jim - they have a defence if they didn't know about it, see: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/road ... a-pothole/ if they've marked it up, they can hardly deny they know about it!! They could argue that if it marked up then they are in the progress of repairing, but I'd have thought damage like that done to Davie's car would mean the hole should be a priority or fenced off.

The answer is clear - we should be marking up any potholes we find to make the council liable for them if they won't act on them. Anyone know what colour and kind of chalk/paint they use to look authentic ? :rofl2:

Also I notice that RAC page has an iOS app that lets you quickly and easily report potholes - I'll be installing that... :twisted: It's a sad state of affairs though when there are so many you need a dedicated smart phone app to make reporting them all more convenient... :roll:

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Stickyfinger
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Stickyfinger »

CitroJim wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 12:02
Hell Razor5543 wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 11:54
I read this Stuff

Any cyclist needs hawk-eyes to successfully evade them all, especially on unfamiliar roads...


Or cycle on the road with bikes that are suitable/strong and able to cope with most (but the largest holes)....like.......err....... with tyres and not a rim clad in hard rubber tubes inflated to 30psi on wheels made of doped tissie paper and a frame made from 2 layers of carbon ?

Just a thought

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CitroJim
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by CitroJim »

RichardW wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 12:23
CitroJim wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 11:48
Is there any truth is the belief that if the pothole in question has been marked out with aerosol spray paint to indicate the council is aware and that it's earmarked for repair absolves said council from any liability?


I think it's rather the other way around, Jim - they have a defence if they didn't know about it, see: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/road ... a-pothole/ if they've marked it up, they can hardly deny they know about it!! They could argue that if it marked up then they are in the progress of repairing, but I'd have thought damage like that done to Davie's car would mean the hole should be a priority or fenced off.


That makes a lot of sense Richard!

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CitroJim
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by CitroJim »

Stickyfinger wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 13:12

Or cycle on the road with bikes that are suitable/strong and able to cope with most (but the largest holes)....like.......err....... with tyres and not a rim clad in hard rubber tubes inflated to 30psi on wheels made of doped tissie paper and a frame made from 2 layers of carbon ?

Just a thought


Modern carbon bikes are well tough enough to cope with it and in fact my best bike with carbon wheels and tubeless tyres is well able.. It's our bodies that aren't!!! Remember bikes like mine race across the pave (cobbles) in Belgium and Northern France (the Cobbled Classics such as Paris-Roubiax) and if they can stand that they can stand anything. The danger with potholes is being thrown off or into the paths of traffic; it is not about damage to the bike at all... Potholes are a danger to the rider and not the bike...

And if my tyres were at 30psi they'd be almost flat! Mine run at between 80 and 100psi. Also decent bike tyres for road use now have kevlar armour and are very tough indeed. It's very hard to damage a good bike tyre nowadays and hard to puncture them too...

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Stickyfinger
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Stickyfinger »

Why not use a bike that is less affected by road conditions......lots of bikes are designed for the best posture, have soft wide saddles and even sprung forks etc.

I agree on the "more danger" aspect of many medium/deep holes to cyclists

If the roads were as good as cyclists want many of us would never bother buying Citroen's however :)

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daviemck2006
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by daviemck2006 »

Bigpug is temporarily out of action then its sitting on an axle stand while i go with the cracked wheel to see if it is repairable. A 17" alloy of the same design has been located and 30 quid is getting it coureried to me, eta Friday. It allegedly has a legal tyre so will do the spare. If the 18" one fixes I only need to buy one matching uniroyal and im sorted. Havent been to photo said hole yet, or gone to the roads department. Im still too annoyed and upset and may well lose the plot which wont help. Thats a result of my chronic conditions. I need time once upset to recover before I can deal with it.

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CitroJim
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by CitroJim »

Stickyfinger wrote:
22 Aug 2017, 13:47
Why not use a bike that is less affected by road conditions......lots of bikes are designed for the best posture, have soft wide saddles and even sprung forks etc.


And are slow, ponderous, heavy, handle badly and very poor at climbing...

Mine are extremely comfortable, even on way less than perfect roads... Riding 80 miles in a day proves that :-D

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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I've used this a couple of times to good effect although I did get a 'we know best' message when I told them that some new road markings at a roundabout were an accident waiting to happen.

https://www.fixmystreet.com/

This video posted on another thread by stickyfinger is the subject of my note the to the council through fix my street, the road markings invite drivers to do just this.

Last edited by myglaren on 22 Aug 2017, 19:10, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: YouTube tags

Gibbo2286
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Re: What Ebay but be quick it's almost over.

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Zelandeth
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Zelandeth »

Oh that fixmystreet thing used to be a bane of my life at times...

The council needs to be able to demonstrate that they haven't been negligent. This means that they need to be able to provide evidence that the road inspector has been out and surveyed that road within a reasonable period of time. If that's been done correctly and the pothole is in the pipeline to be sorted, it's less likely (though by no means impossible) that you'll be able to get anything out of them. If however they can't prove that the road had been inspected any time in the last eight years... they've no leg to stand on and will be fully liable.

The issue I have with fixmystreet is the people who use that like the dash cam warriors who use it as a tool to go *looking* for the slightest defect and then making a military operation out of getting it sorted.

Demanding bus shelters be painted through it was a favourite. Almost always ended up having to give in and do it - at a couple of grand cost to the taxpayer that I really could have put to better use elsewhere...

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bobins
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Re: What a pothole does

Post by bobins »

The bottom line is - councils / highways authorities don't have limitless budgets to keep roads in good order. Central government is reluctant to increase taxes to pay for - amongst other things - increased road repairs, as raising tax rates isn't a vote winner. Having to pay for new wheels / tyres / suspension components is just a different form of taxation, but one that doesn't really benefit society as a whole :(

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daviemck2006
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Re: What Ebay but be quick it's almost over.

Post by daviemck2006 »


Those ones were nice and at 100 quid was a bargain. However they were not suitable for bigpug as she has 5 stud wheels. The only ones which are 407, 607, c5x7 and c6 as far as I am aware. Funnily though volvo have the exact same spec of wheels, even the centre bore so any volvo 5 stud would fit exactly!

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Re: What a pothole does

Post by Fake Concern »

I've only just seen this! What a pain Davie. I believe it is correct as Richard has said that the pothole needs to have been reported. Might be a good idea to get a mate to report it before you make your claim!