Limp Grand C4 Picasso - Injector Failure

[RichardW]

That's probably to do with it being sold in the US and the risk of a class action lawsuit, which just doesn't exist in Europe!! Hope you are liking the Subaru - I always rather fancied on (they're eccentric in the same mould as Citroen) but they horrific fuel consumption put me off! Even the diesel ones are not great, and the engines are prone to problems. Apparently if / when they go wrong parts prices are ££££ - hopefully a rare occurrence!

[Old-Guy]

I'm sure you're right. Subaru have had problems with the petrol chain-cam engines, but mostly in the US with the bigger engines (the 2L petrol isn't sold in North America). Fuel consumption is relatively high (33mpg over 85,000) but it is permanent AWD and has spent most of it's life in the Highlands. Did 37mpg (brim to brim) on a recent 400 mile trip; mostly motorway at the legal limit (by GPS). Press-on cross-country motoring drops it closer to 30. What's more, close to a Xantia for ride comfort and the seats/driving position are more comfortable.
I too long fancied a Subaru, the Forester is most practical for a pair of oldies. After 30 years of practical diesels (of which the Xantia was the best by far), the Subaru is HUGE fun to drive, it really has to be revved (peak torque @ 4,200, peak power @ 6,000, red line at 6,500), though it's a bit raucous considering there's only 148PS. Under the SUV skin it's an Impreza (with revised dampers, springs and roll-bars for better ride and handling), giving truly awesome road-holding, in my experience only surpassed by a Carrera 4 and the Forester is on 225/55 R17 4-season tyres! It goes exactly where it's pointed at frightening speeds in the wet, and passes the 'Elk test' with contemptuous ease. A steep hill start on wet cobbles? Engage low ratio and pull away as normal in 1st! Change up into High 1st and then 2nd. It's a 10-speed box, though not quite as slick as a Laycock overdrive.

[api182]

Spoke to Citroen dealer, didn't have a clue what I was on about...

Said there's only one recall due on my vehicle, that is something to do with the timing belt but not until I hit 75k miles which I find odd...

Started going down the route of a diagnostics session £85 +VAT which I'm semi reluctant to do at this stage given that I have my own Lexia, the faults are cleared now and haven't come back yet so I think it would he a waste of money..?

I think I'll fire an email off to Citroen UK just seeking advice at this stage. It's a great car for our family and all that, but I don't want to cling on to it if I'm expected to throw some big money at it over the coming months

[GiveMeABreak]

The idiots - honestly, it makes me wonder how they stay in business.

All they have to do is put the VIN into their system (tell them Citroen ServiceBox) and then the warning will come up - first in a red flashing triangle as at top right of the first picture below, and secondly when the triangle is clicked, you can see the warning in the second picture and lastly, you can see your VIN over to the left.

Click images to zoom

I think I'm going to have to go and get a bl**dy job with Citroen in the training department and sort them out.

[Old-Guy]

Sounds like a typical dealer put-off. Dealers really hate recalls because they are unprofitable: they get paid at the manufacturers rate for an unachievable standard time based on doing the job on a new car.

[api182]

The idiots - honestly, it makes me wonder how they stay in business.

All they have to do is put the VIN into their system (tell them Citroen ServiceBox) and then the warning will come up - first in a red flashing triangle as at top right of the first picture below, and secondly when the triangle is clicked, you can see the warning in the second picture and lastly, you can see your VIN over to the left.

Click images to zoom
Recall.PNG

reca;; 2.PNG

I think I'm going to have to go and get a bl**dy job with Citroen in the training department and sort them out.

Is there any chance that's just this timing belt recall that the guy was on about or is that specifically the injector related recall you spoke of earlier?

Do you have a screenshot available with more info on that little red warning triangle please?

Thanks!
Adam.

[GiveMeABreak]

That is the message in the second picture Adam.

The content is only revealed on the dealer system, so I cannot tell you exactly what it is for, but I separately mentioned in the earlier post that there is a TSB (technical service bulletin) and quoted the reference for the specific combination of faults codes that you quoted in your previous post. When I searched on the specific TSB, it was all to do with he injector problems that are a cause of faults that you are experiencing.

All you need to do on that front is tell them you have the 2 codes coming up together and that there is a TSB for this issue. Tell him to look on service box under the air and fuel supply section, then go to the Diagnosis, section and it is listed there. Tell him to look for the one near the top of the list that says when these 2 codes appear. That involves replacing injectors and components as you can see from my rough translation earlier of the TSB.

[farkinator]

Hi

I'm hoping I don't have this issues again but wanted to chat it through.

We bought our Gr C4 Picasso from an independent dealer in September. Within a month the ESP/ASR error popped up and it went into limp mode. It was under warranty and it went to the local Citroen garage. They diagnosed that injector 4 had failed. The garage we bought it from weren't happy to pay out the full £1500 for this for 5 yr old car still within the manufacturer's warranty mileage. They negotiated and they went halves on the bill with Citroen in the end.

3 months later and we had the same error and got it towed to another Citroen garage locally. They found that injectors 2 and 3 had gone. So they got Citroen to pay out for all three remaining injectors to be replaced. They also replaced a few other parts in and around the injectors.

My worry is that the injectors going is just the symptom rather than the problem. How's likely is it that 3 injectors go like this?

I've just got the car back from the garage and then went to go out again and the error appeared again. If cleared after a restart 15 mins.

Any ideas or tips?

Thanks
Mark

[Old-Guy]

Citroen state that in addition to the injector (& seal) various other part including clamp and clamp bolts must all be replaced. Shortly after the first failed injector was replaced (local inde), the original clamp failed. Looking at the fracture, it was clear that the crack was long-standing and probably re-tightening it caused the crack to 'unzip'. Talking to the mobile mechanic who replaced the other 3 injectors, we reckon that the injector failure could be caused over time by increasingly unequal pressure on the injector by cracked clamps.
It's simply not economic to crack-test the other 3 clamps when the first injector fails.
Citroen undoubtedly know a great deal more about the problem than they will admit.
We didn't particularly like the GC4P, so chopped it in a year ago against a Subaru Forester of similar age and mileage (much nicer car and with awesome handling and grip, on 4-seasons tyres, that goes un-noticed 99% of the time) so I can't offer any long-term experience. I would not expect any further problems with injectors etc. From our experience, you're likely to get particulate filter and regeneration warnings for several hundred miles until all un-burnt fuel and soot has been burnt off - follow the advice in the handbook. We may have been particularly unkind to the system on both occasions by limping along for several miles to find a safe place to stop where there was habitation or mobile coverage.
'Limp mode' with one of these engines is more 'Crippled and Crawling': 1,200 rpm in 1st gear only and defeated by more than the slightest uphill.