Electric Cars:what's available?

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by mickthemaverick »

Thanks for that epic clarification Richard. Why on earth they have to go through that lot astounds me. All that is required is to pick a sensible venue, say Le Mans or The Nurburgring, put exactly 1 gallon of fuel in each car, drive them at 30, 50 and 70 mph and see how far they get. Or fill the tank, drive 100km at each speed and measure the fuel used by simply refilling. No need for laboratories to establish mpg, leave them to work on emissions per litre used and then publish all the values in the advertising specs. This is all the result of too much processing power in computers, used to justify their existence. Damn it, my tongue's got stuck in my cheek now!! :)

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Well today I had occasion to tax a vehicle, the Micra has been brought back into the reserve fold. Clicked on the make your next car electric bit. Can't retrieve it all but it did link to this current "government list" of vehicles eligible for a plug-in grant......not that big a list, and your mild, self-charging, and virtually all the current crop of plug in hybrids do not meet the criteria. full info here
https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants
Cars These vehicles have CO2 emissions of less than 50g/km and can travel at least 112km (70 miles) without any emissions at all. The grant will pay for 35% of the purchase price for these vehicles, up to a maximum of £3,500.
Audi e-tron, Audi e-tron Sportback, BMW i3 and i3s, BYD e6, DS 3 Crossback E-Tense, Hyundai IONIQ Electric, Hyundai KONA Electric Hyundai NEXO Jaguar I-PACE Kia e-Niro Kia Soul EV Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric Drive Mercedes-Benz EQC Mercedes-Benz eVito Tourer

MG ZS EV MINI Electric Nissan e-NV200 (5-seater and 7-seater) Nissan LEAF

Peugeot e-208 Peugeot e-2008 Porsche Taycan Renault ZOE SEAT Mii electric Škoda Citigo-e iV

Smart EQ fortwo Smart EQ forfour Tesla Model S Tesla Model X Tesla Model 3

Toyota Mirai Vauxhall Corsa-e Volkswagen e-up! Volkswagen e-Golf
Bit of a lower threshold of electricness with Vans (only 10 Miles emission free range) and higher Co2 emissions allowed. Increased level of grant.
VansThese vehicles have CO2 emissions of less than 75g/km and can travel at least 16km (10 miles) without any emissions at all. The grant will pay for 20% of the purchase price for these vehicles, up to a maximum of £8,000.
BD Auto eTraffic
BD Auto eDucato (3.5 tonnes)
Citroen Berlingo
Ford Transit Custom PHEV
Mercedes-Benz eVito
Mitsubishi Outlander Commercial
Nissan e-NV200 (cargo van)
Peugeot ePartner
Renault Kangoo ZE
Renault Master ZE
LDV EV80 van
LDV EV80 chassis cab
REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 19 Feb 2020, 00:07, edited 3 times in total.

RichardW
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by RichardW »

It's all in the name of standardisation - but the figures are only any use for comparing vehicles - don't expect to get anywhere near the quoted figures. I used to assume that you would the urban figure on average, any better than this is a bonus! The makers have 000s of miles of test data, they know exactly what they will do in real world driving but that wouldn't do their sales any good!!

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Another category from the DVLA list. While my private hire driver today was content with his Euro Vi Diesel, specific Taxi's currently get an additional PiCG benefit 20% of purchase price up to £7,500.
Taxis
These vehicles are purpose-built taxis and have CO2 emissions of less than 50g/km and can travel at least 112km (70 miles) without any emissions at all:

Dynamo Taxi
LEVC TX

The grant will pay for 20% of the purchase price for these vehicles, up to a maximum of £7,500.
REgards Neil

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white exec
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by white exec »

The government have got the message.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

This is a useful guide to whats available new....from Go Ultra Low.
Have to say, after finding currently that an £8,000 Plug in Car Grant, is available for vans, the price of new bog standard small electric white vans by Renault/Peugeot/Nissan is far too expensive.

Surely the car industry can churn out an electric small white van well under £20,000.

REgards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Well if you are looking for a conversation piece a bit of fun, and a head turner and about €6000, and can put up with the paperwork of importing it, theres always the

Citroen Marmite

Way cheaper than the Italian Bubblecar

and the Renault Twizy

The SEAT Minimó in a similar vein is still "concept" but could be coming to the streets of Barcelona with its 5G connectivity and all that stuff :-D

As the blurb says these are not cars......they are defined as quadricycles.

REgards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

Citroen Ami EV:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/28/cars ... index.html

Is it just me or does it make the 2CV also shown in the article look sleek and spacious ? :lol:

Obviously designed to be a slightly more refined rival to the Twizzy, eg it comes with doors and windows as standard. :rofl2:

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

In the Gloucester mall they've been offering MG cars for quite a while now but yesterday was the first time I've seen the MG electric on site. Start price around 22 + grand, the petrols start at under 10 grand.

Can't really blame the manufacturers, the public have to get on board first or the makers could have hundreds of thousands of unsold cars sitting in fields as has happened before.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
02 Mar 2020, 14:52
In the Gloucester mall they've been offering MG cars for quite a while now but yesterday was the first time I've seen the MG electric on site. Start price around 22 + grand, the petrols start at under 10 grand.

Can't really blame the manufacturers, the public have to get on board first or the makers could have hundreds of thousands of unsold cars sitting in fields as has happened before.
I would expect the basic "gubbins" of an electric vehicle to be pretty much on a par cost-wise with the "gubbins" of an ICE with the existing greater economies of scale of ICE/ offset by the relatively fewer component parts of an electric vehicle.

So whats the big difference......the battery pack. Is that going to be £10,000 on the price......I doubt it, I'm sure manufacturers source their batteries at a fraction of that sort of price tag.

Unfortunately the base price for the electric city car hits round about £20,000 and manufacturers dont want to disrupt that market. A £10,000 difference between Electric and ICE means there is a chance to sell their ICE cars. A £5,000 difference and Electric starts winning on fuel savings alone, and their own ICE cars market if not completely wrecked, is damaged.

The MGZS EV is more than an electric city car for not much more than a electric city car.



REgards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by RichardW »

The Ioniq was mentioned on the spotting thread... I had a look on Autotrader, they're still dear - the cheapest being a £18.5k private sale, where:
Ioniq seller wrote:Selling due to a Tesla replacement, nothing else beats this EV
Well, apart from a Tesla then!!

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
03 Mar 2020, 08:16
The Ioniq was mentioned on the spotting thread... I had a look on Autotrader, they're still dear - the cheapest being a £18.5k private sale, where:
Ioniq seller wrote:Selling due to a Tesla replacement, nothing else beats this EV
Well, apart from a Tesla then!!
Yes the Ioniq Electric is very expensive second hand. :(

Even the original 28kWh model launched in the UK way back in 2017 is still commanding a minimum price of nearly £20k second hand at 3 years old regardless of mileage. :shock:

I think there's a couple of reasons - one is its a very good BEV - literally the most efficient BEV currently on the road by a considerable margin, beating even Tesla. The miles/kWh efficiency is so high that its almost hard to understand how they achieve it...some sort of Voodoo must be involved... It gets better miles/kWh than even my tiny Ion in all conditions even slow city driving, but especially at higher speeds or with the heater on despite being a much bigger heavier car. All the Kia/Hyundai BEV's are super efficient for their class, but as the Ioniq is a hatchback with a very low Cd it beats out the other Kia/Hyundai BEV models which are crossovers. (Although they still get very good figures as well) It can also charge at up to 70kW and has thermal battery management albeit forced air rather than water cooling like the Kona. By comparison a Leaf can only charge at 43kW and has no battery cooling.

The other reason is scarcity - they're a very good BEV but the numbers made so far have been so low at least in the UK market that they hold their second hand value and get snapped up quickly.

If the Ioniq electric was the same price second hand as the 30kWh Leaf I'd go for the Ioniq for sure - apart from having no remote control app its a better more modern car in nearly every way, but particularly in regards to the BEV aspects of the car.

However a 3 year old Ioniq costs nearly £20k, and you can get a 3 year old 30kWh Leaf for between £10k - £14k depending on spec level and mileage! Also there are lots of Leaf's available for sale at any given time and not many Ioniq's. So in my situation it's a no-brainer. I can't justify or afford £20k. Usable battery capacity of 30kWh Leaf and Ioniq are both about the same - 27.5kWh for the Leaf, 28kWh for the Ioniq. Despite this the Leaf will only do 100-110 miles tops, the Ioniq can do 120-130 miles on the same size battery with ease...

If Kia/Hyundai can ever crank up their BEV production numbers significantly (by overcoming battery supply shortage issues) Nissan are in real trouble that's for sure. (I think Nissan are in trouble already to be honest on many fronts, but that's another story)

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Skull
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Skull »

https://www.fiat.co.uk/500-electric-la-prima

The price of the new Fiat 500 «la Prima» will be £32,995 (minus Gov incentive listed as UK = £4,000)

Looks nice but final spec undecided and still way too much cash [-X

A 1-500 numbered plaque for the first 500 cars looks a little too exposed as a 'trophy' just below the rear quarter window :mrgreen:

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I dont think they (PSA..Fiat etc) are trying that hard. They appear to be using the "iconic" status they seem to think exists for the Fiat 500 brand to build and sell them for the maximum price possible. Not so for the original FIAT 500 which was cheap transportation for the masses at its inception, before it turned into a marketing-driven sort of retro-cool over-expensive cult car. Back to its roots is what is needed now, not a way overpriced offering as it turns electric.

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Just chatting to an old pal, he was telling me about a neighbour who has a an 18 reg Golf diesel, took it in for service at the Gloucester dealership. their loan car was a new Golf electric, he asked if it would get him to Birmingham for a business meeting, they told him it would get him there but not back.

He went to Birmingham then looked on their 'app' for the nearest charger, it was miles away at a motorway services, he managed to get there, sweating, with just 18 miles left on the clock then had to spend two and a half hours waiting for it to charge up enough to get him back to Gloucester.