Electric Cars:what's available?

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available

Post by Mandrake »

Or if you want a twizzy that is a bit faster, try this one: (crazy french :rofl2: )


User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 14005
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

https://www.whatcar.com/news/new-issue- ... now/n14341

“The latest issue of What Car? is out now, and it's an electric car special, with verdicts on every EV currently on sale and previews of all the upcoming models worth waiting for “
Wonder if there is anything from the big hitters like Ford? PSA?

Regards Neil

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 14005
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Where's the cheap electric car for the masses going to come from? Well here in the western world it seems the car manufacturers seem to think, driverless capability, connectivity with home/office and all the functions of a mobile phone are essential for selling cars to the modern consumer, and maybe an electric scooter or two thrown in the boot for the last mile in town. Of course all that additional functionality adds to the price.

Over in India things might be different, and in tackling their horrendous pollution problems those sort of add-ons are very probably a waste of time and money. So Suzuki have produced this thing....
Maruti SuZuki Wagon R EV. of course only the EV bit is new the Suzuki R Wagon is an staple in the Indian transport scene.
The price point after subsidies $10,000. Still pricy for India, but cheap in comparison to current EV offerings from any UK showrooms.
Carlos Ghosn ( in old news from 2016) was very bullish in his aims for Renault to produce low cost EV's for China.
Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn: $7,000–8,000 Renault EV Is The Aim For China

REgards Neil

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

Peugeot finally stepping into the ring properly ? (I don't count the Peugeot Ion, as it's just a re-badged Mitubishi, manufactured completely by Mitubishi!)

https://insideevs.com/2019-peugeot-e208 ... ile-range/

https://www.motor1.com/news/306662/2019 ... -revealed/

136HP for the EV version while more than the petrol and diesel versions is still some way short of the 215HP of the likes of the Hyundai Kona and Kia e-Niro though!

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 14005
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 12:57
Peugeot finally stepping into the ring properly ?


I hope so....
...but are they going to ramp up production of the EV version, aggressively market them and sell them hand over fist? Time will tell, but they are no doubt just as interested in churning out the diesel..(yes 2019 and they are still attempting to flog diesels) and petrol versions of the same model.

Couple of reasonable comments from the article you linked to
from "Happosai"
"Excellent. The only remaining question is how many batteries they have ordered for this and next year.
Also the question journalists should ask from every car maker at Geneva car show."
Backed up by "CQV"
Absolutely the right question to ask. It’s about time all EV journalists, INCLUDING InsideEVs start to separate the wheat from the chaff by interrogating manufacturers on whether they can actually their produce their newly introduced EVs in volume.

It’s tiring to see EV publications used as PR tools by manufacturers who want to look good, but can’t deliver.
REgards Neil

Online
Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 11118
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 1196

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Good journalists need to pose intelligent questions (and keep asking them until they receive meaningful answers). Two cases come to mind;

1, Jeremy Clarkson, on a Top Gear episode, commented (or asked) why car manufacturers (who ALWAYS tell you the 0 - 60MPH times) never gave out any 60 - 0MPH times. He felt that good brakes were far more important than good acceleration (and we all know he likes to shout "POWER"!).

2, Margaret Thatcher was being interviewed by a studio of university students. They had not been pre-prepared. On several occasions they asked questions she tried to avoid. Whenever this happened they would not let her get away with it, but kept asking the same (intelligent) question until she was forced to answer it (as she realised they would not let her evade them). The students were polite, but they were also very persistent.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

Now on the Peugeot website:

https://www.peugeot.co.uk/showroom/new- ... TMT1XXXXXX

I don't see a price though ? Just "register your interest".

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 14005
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

"An electric automobile should be
SIMPLE
ECONOMICAL
ALWAYS READY
NOISELESS
ELEGANT"

at least those were the key factors in 1902 :-D

Image
REgards Neil

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

A brief fully charged walkaround/preview of the Peugeot E-208.



No prices or full review yet.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 6438
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1092

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by white exec »

Looking good. The price will be interesting.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

It does look interesting, however you can bet it will be at least £5k more expensive than the top spec petrol/diesel version of the car!

A combination of factors are responsible for that -

1) A worldwide shortage of manufacturing capacity for EV batteries, most of the EV batteries come from one of only a few suppliers - Samsung SDI, Panasonic, LG Chem or SK Innovation. Other brands like Hyundai and Kia are struggling to get sufficient supply of batteries as well. Because demand is higher than supply they can set high prices for the few cars they can make and know they will still sell. The UK's 2019 allocation of the Hyundai Kona and Kia e-Niro sold out in just a couple of weeks despite them being arguably more expensive than they should be!

2) Lack of economy of scale - petrol/diesel cars are cheap partly due to massive economies of scale (things like engines are almost a commodity item now that platform sharing is a big thing) and 100 years of amortised R&D that has gone into getting to where we are today. EV's don't have economy of scale yet nor do they have a 100 year legacy of R&D. Pretty much everything that has happened in EV's to bring them to where they are today has happened within the last 20 years and only in the last 10 years on any kind of scale.

3) The manufacturer not wanting to make the EV too attractive against a lower cost but higher margin petrol/diesel. There's no doubt that legacy makers are resisting the shift to EV's because they won't be as profitable for them, at least in the short term. They'll want to wring out the profits for the last decade or so of ICE technology first. So make the EV attractive enough to sell but not TOO attractive so as to decimate the sales of a petrol/diesel version of the same car.

I suspect they'll only be able to produce a few thousands of the EV version of the 208 over the first year vs tens of thousands of ICE 208's. Still a step in the right direction though.

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2020
Posts: 3822
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 1134

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by bobins »

Mandrake wrote:
31 Mar 2019, 17:38

A combination of factors are responsible for that -


3) The manufacturer not wanting to make the EV too attractive against a lower cost but higher margin petrol/diesel. There's no doubt that legacy makers are resisting the shift to EV's because they won't be as profitable for them, at least in the short term. They'll want to wring out the profits for the last decade or so of ICE technology first. So make the EV attractive enough to sell but not TOO attractive so as to decimate the sales of a petrol/diesel version of the same car.



I think in tandem with your point above, there's also autonomous vehicles on the horizon - although that horizon is a little distant at present ! It seems that it's the intention of the autonomous vehicle industry that the general public won't be outright buying an autonomous vehicle, they'll either hail one or have it on some sort of personal lease. The implication being that the manufactureres will keep ownership of the autonomous vehicles so will be able to drive the pace of change, cost, end of life/renewal, etc. Basically - the car manufacturers will be able to devise a business model that will keep them in business. I wonder if the volume car manufacturers are trying to delay mass-market uptake of electric cars until they can start to stitch-up the autonomous car market ?

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

Personally I think the concept of fully autonomous vehicles is massively over-hyped. I very much doubt that they'll be driving on the same roads as human driven cars any time soon despite the constant wide eyed optimism of people like Elon Musk that it's just around the corner. I admire the guy's achievements and ambitions especially on the space front but I think on the point of autonomous driving he's flat wrong and hopelessly over optimistic.

I also think the concept of drivers not owning a car and just calling for an autonomous vehicle when we want it is fanciful. We have those already - they're called Taxi's... ;) And those of us who drive generally don't want to be using a Taxi except perhaps grudgingly after a Friday night out!

It also fails to take into account the human desire to own things. Assuming you consider PCP "owning" a vehicle then I think vehicle ownership is here to stay, so the people who might call on autonomous vehicles are mostly going to be the same people that would get Taxi's buses and Trains today and already don't own a car. In other words its Taxi drivers that should be worried about autonomous vehicles not vehicle manufacturers!

Anyone with kids sees straight away the flaw of a vehicle that comes to you "when you need it" - that vehicle doesn't have your child seat in it, your bags of child "supplies" etc and heaven forbid that your kids make a mess in that car - how are you going to clean that up before the car drives itself to the next person who has called on it ? Do you want an autonomous car to arrive when you call it to find melted chocolate and vomit on the back seat from the previous occupants kids ? Yuck... :lol:

No, if you can drive, afford a car and you have a kid, you want your own car, not a car on demand, that's for sure...!

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

Something that occurred to me with the announcement of the e-208 - where is Citroen's version ?

Which Citroen model shares the same chassis with the 208 and when will it be announced ?

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 14005
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1379

Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Well as of April Fools Day, the Citroen.co.uk page on the electric vehicles tab appears a touch sparse right now, with a nice helping of what looks suspiciously like BS. (does depend I suppose on whether you regard 30 minutes as a few minutes ("recharging in a flash!") or one car, and one van as a "broad range")
Regards Neil