Electric Cars:what's available?

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bobins
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by bobins »

Unless I'm much mistaken, PSA sell engines to various car manufacturers and they design their cars to accept those PSA engines. Whilst I appreciate there is no appetite in the industry for 'one size fits all' batteries at present, it's a brave man that says they'll never design electric vehicles to take 'ISO standard' battery packs - albeit in a variety of sizes and capacities.
I believe there is such technology that allows wireless communication between devices - that would work around the comms issue between car and battery pack. Quick couplers that allow automatic coupling for fluid transfers have been around for.... well, years !
It'll be market forces, peer pressure, and laws that define what our future cars will look like, how we will interact with them, and what they will do. How we use them currently - and how they are designed - will become the stuff of museums and curios.

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 19:56
Nio are giving it a bit of an airing as posted a couple of items back. Even a video to click on a few scrollings down the link.
"An Experience Beyond Refueling
NIO Power is a charging solution that is powered by the mobile internet. The wide-ranging network of charging and battery swap facilities, supported by NIO Cloud, allows for NIO users to enjoy exclusive power services with a single click."
All I can say is good luck to them... :lol:

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by mickthemaverick »

Mandrake wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 20:11
mickthemaverick wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 16:52
Seriously though my biggest concern is the number of people who are likely to ignore the advice and use plug in chargers all the time at home. As an electronics man I can certainly a significant increase in fire risk which will result in increased home insurance premiums for everyone!!


Proper wall mounted EVSE's by law must be connected to a dedicated (spur) circuit, and must also be RCBO protected.

In short it's a very safe and well designed system and the regulations are quite strict.

Eventually the phase pin can overheat and melt, in rare cases it can catch fire.

- and manufacturers expressly forbid plugging a portable EVSE into an extension cord of any sort, and yet everyone does it. (Yes even I did for a while until I had a proper wall charger)

As soon as you use an extension cord the plug on the extension cord does not have a temperature sensor and is vulnerable to progressive overheating.

.................. however it's not the right thing to use for every day charging for years on end, and people that do that are running a risk.
Another excellent explanation of the systems design and construction Simon, thanks.
However, sadly as it is, there are a large number of motorists who do not operate according to the law or any set of regulations. Look at the number of uninsured drivers, untaxed vehicles, unroadworthy vehicles which have false MOT's, bald tyres, smoking joes etc etc. These people are not going to adhere to the law or the safety guidelines from manufacturers, they are going to do exactly what suits themselves as they always have done, and in doing so generate the additional fire risks which the insurance companies will not ignore.

I feel sure that while manufacturers and legislators may do their utmost to make the systems safe, you can never cover the acts of people who wish to behave outside the framework of our society with total disregard for anyone else. However the risk assessment programs used to generate premiums will take them into account and we will all suffer accordingly.

Having said that, you could argue that some people currently hold illegal stores of fuel I suppose, and my concerns are just a modernisation of the current dubious practices with inflammable substances stored inappropriately and in unlicensed quantities and premises.

Perhaps we should look more deeply into non battery electric vehicles which would eliminate the charging risk altogether. Obviously the hydrogen cell is one example as is the grid powered vehicle and the solar/wind powered options. All of these need further research and development but there may well be a better option than conventional batteries open to us. For example I recall reading about a potato generator which produced a few millivolts 30 years ago so maybe the answer will lie in a sack of spuds!!

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The greater efficiency of BEV's over hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, in terms of the production storage and distribution of hydrogen, does favour BEV's becoming the dominant replacement for ICE. However a number of manufacturers and in particular China and South Korea, are not putting all their eggs in the BEV basket.

I started a thread Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles...Still alive? to mop up current developments in fuel cell vehicles.

Hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe, and recent concerns over the supply of rare earth metals required for current battery technologies and the global supply and manufacture of batteries in sufficient volume has led to a bit of a resurgence of, in particular, Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, and state-sponsored infrastructure developments.

Talk even of creating a market for hydrogen by piping a percentage of H2 into domestic gas supplies in the UK, along with possibly looking to hydrogen to serve some role in domestic heating.

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

KIA e-Niro....
Autocar:800 miles in a week in an electric car: 12 things I learned
"Earlier this year, as part of a long-term test review, I had six months to discover just how good the Kia e-Niro is. But as the time neared its end, it became apparent that the car's real-world 250-300-mile range meant I hadn’t driven anywhere that necessitated the use of the UK's public charging network."
Maybe the public charging network is a restrictive factor in EV take up, but with bigger range EV's maybe less so.

REgards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

If BEV makers are complying with regulations, in Europe at least, all BEV's made after 1st July 2019 will have to have a noise!

At the ridiculous end of the market you can have an additional extra. Porsche offers a $500 (£400) upgrade to its Taycan sports car that boosts the volume of its electric motor to make it sound more like a petrol engine.

Electric car owners to 'choose' engine sounds

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Ever heard of Rivian?

Well they have just received an order for 100,000 electric vans from Amazon.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... art-rivian

Its an EV Start up.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Skull wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 01:13
AX Electrique :luv: :luv: :luv:
Occasionally they come up on leboncoin as well as some other first generation pioneers like the Saxo Electrique, and the Peugeot 106 Electrique.

Image

Image

While with the battery technology at the time they had very limited range, its probably that type of small affordable electric car that would help in wider and quicker adoption for the masses. The major automakers dont want to sell you small cheap electric cars though. Grudgingly most now see the transition happening, but they want to make it as slow as possible, and producing a small low margin, less maintenance electric car at a relatively low price would make selling of their higher margin offerings more difficult.

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by white exec »

Our daughter-in-law has been working for Rivian for nearly two years now.
They have produced a very interesting (essentially flat and highly adaptable) BEV platform.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by white exec »

As with any advance in technology or design, manufacturers initially price their first productions high, to re-coup some of the development costs, and also to take advantage of those who are eager to get their hands on the very latest/best product available, and who see high price as no obstacle. In some cases, the high-price honeymoon period can last several years. After that, the price is progressively dropped to much lower figures, to attract volume sales. In my own industry, a new piece of kit could launch at £250k, and end up at much less than half that, new, within a few years. Even the latter pricing was decently profitable.

There is also the caution of not wanting "too many of them out there", in case bugs and problems become too widespread. A whole story lurks about prototypes, beta models, field-testing, and trusted customers...

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by myglaren »

Not available yet but how do you like the new BMW?




Doesn't say that it is electric either but implied.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Is this the cheapest EV so far? Only in China, but with eyes on Europe
From the recent archives but on the point of "a cheaper EV"
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
21 Feb 2019, 10:57
Where's the cheap electric car for the masses going to come from? Well here in the western world it seems the car manufacturers seem to think, driverless capability, connectivity with home/office and all the functions of a mobile phone are essential for selling cars to the modern consumer, and maybe an electric scooter or two thrown in the boot for the last mile in town. Of course all that additional functionality adds to the price.

Over in India things might be different, and in tackling their horrendous pollution problems those sort of add-ons are very probably a waste of time and money. So Suzuki have produced this thing....
Maruti SuZuki Wagon R EV. of course only the EV bit is new the Suzuki R Wagon is an staple in the Indian transport scene.
The price point after subsidies $10,000. Still pricy for India, but cheap in comparison to current EV offerings from any UK showrooms.
Carlos Ghosn ( in old news from 2016) was very bullish in his aims for Renault to produce low cost EV's for China.
Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn: $7,000–8,000 Renault EV Is The Aim For China

REgards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Bit more on Amazon's order with Rivian.
Opinion: Will Amazon's electric vans disrupt the car industry?
"That also shows the possibilities created by electric ’skateboard’ chassis, which feature the batteries under the floors and motors at either end, making them far easier to place bespoke bodies on. The merits of that approach have already been shown by the likes of Volkswagen with its MEB platform, which is set to underpin everything from the ID 3 hatchback to the ID Buzz van. What the Amazon deal shows is how that could lead to a revival of coachbuild-style machines, giving firms the option to use bespoke, own-brand bodywork. In a similar fashion, Volkswagen is offering the MEB platform to other firms to use.
Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »