Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

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Timmo
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Timmo »

Just spotted a Renault Twizzy! Not seen one of them in a very long time!

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myglaren
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 15:20
The only direct competitor to Tesla from that video is the Jaguar i-Pace, officially released on the 1st of March and open for orders, which again, if you like SUV's (which I personally don't) looks like a very nice car, and it competes with the Tesla Model X. Sort of.

It's big but its actually significantly smaller than the Model X, although for British roads that is probably a good thing! Performance is comparable to an entry level Model X however the performance variants of the Model X will wipe the floor with it despite their larger size and weight. It comes with 4WD drive as standard which is good.

As much as I like the design of the i-Pace though, I can't help but shake off the feeling that it is a "me too" design that is mimicking the Model X, and that they haven't really come up with anything new - they have just built the "Jaguar Model X". The flat battery under the floor pan and drive train configuration shown in that video is a carbon copy of the approach that Tesla pioneered with the Model S and carried over to the Model X, and the dashboard design etc whilst having a lot more buttons looks like it was designed by the same designer who styled the Model X dashboard...

I'm sure it's a genuinely good car and it will sell well among people who would buy Jaguars, or those that might buy a Model X except for it being an American car, etc... but apart from "second sourcing" the basic design of the Model X I'm not sure that it brings anything new to the table...

Without supercharger support and relying on CCS charging, it will also have limited charging options in the UK at the moment where a lot of rapid chargers do not have CCS connectors, and those that do are only 50kW, if you can find one that isn't broken, whilst the i-Pace itself can charge at 100kW given the right charger. A Tesla on the other hand can charge at 125kW today using a large number of Superchargers in the UK.


Done a search. That piece by Simon is the only reference so far in this thread to the Jaguar I-Pace so maybe time now to put up a few visuals for spotters, just in case they sell a few which I am sure they will. Over in the US, 20,000 look set to join the Waymo self driving fleet mentioned on the self-driving cars thread.

So the blurb is here from the horse's mouth....starting at £63,495 with enough performance and range to satisfy most...and its an SUV...virtually the only game in town these days.

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/jaguar-range/i-pace/index.html

Look you can even put a bike on the roof :-D

Image

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van ordinaire
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by van ordinaire »

Has anyone ever watched one of these American uTube clips through to the end? I invariably get bored waiting for something to happen - & this one was no different.

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van ordinaire
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by van ordinaire »

Love those Twizzles - (they are a joke, so the cartoon character is so apposite!) really disappointed the one I saw turning into a drive round the corner a couple of weeks ago never been seen since.

Shock, horror, 1st it was 4-door Porkers, then VW AmTracks NOW - a Taser, Tessa, Tess of the Urban Villas? oh Tesla (is that it?) has turned up in a neighbour's drive!

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by myglaren »

Yet another Leaf.

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Michel
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Michel »

They say a picture paints a thousand words. I'm in Frejus on the South coast of France near St. Tropez
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Michel
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Michel »

Timmo wrote:
28 Mar 2018, 14:30
Just spotted a Renault Twizzy! Not seen one of them in a very long time!


One lives next door to my mate Pete in Reading. They appear to use them at Nice airport too, for some kind of airport police car.

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by andy5 »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 16:56
So the blurb is here from the horse's mouth....starting at £63,495 with enough performance and range to satisfy most...and its an SUV...virtually the only game in town these days.

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/jaguar-range/i-pace/index.html

Wow. If I got one of those and saved 8 pence a mile on fuel, I'd only need to do 800,000 miles in it before it had paid for itself.

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I don't think the Jaguar I-Pace is going to to be the "people's car" of the electric vehicle revolution but do think it will sell well.

I notice from the blurb that the range is described thus

"RANGE Up to 298 miles WLTP*"

..and WLTP is?
*WLTP (Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure) is the new process that has been phased in from 2017, which measures fuel, energy consumption, range and emissions in passenger vehicles in Europe. This is designed to provide figures closer to real-world driving behaviour. It tests vehicles with optional equipment and with a more demanding test procedure and driving profile.
Regards Neil

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Mandrake »

WLTP replaces the comically optimistic and unobtainable range figures previously provided by the NEDC, but it is still fairly optimistic.

To give you an idea - the new 40kWh Nissan Leaf (Leaf 2.Zero) had an NEDC range rating of 235 miles (HAH! :lol: ) and I have seen both 177 miles and 168 miles as quoted WLTP ranges for the same car. (Not sure why there are two different figures floating around)

Actual real world readily achievable range in summer is about 140-150 miles. The US EPA rating is 151 miles, so as usual with EV's the EPA range rating is pretty realistic, and that's the test figure I would always go with if it is available. (Which it's not always, since some cars like the Zoe are not available in the US and thus don't get tested by the EPA)

If you're comparing EPA and WLTP rated cars you'd need to apply a suitable correction factor to get a rough idea of how they truly compare as EPA, WLTP and NEDC figures cannot be directly compared.

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myglaren
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by myglaren »

A Zoe and a Leaf.

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by CitroJim »

Strikes me that manufacturers stated EV range is about on a par with their mpg figures for ICE vehicles... Figures generally unattainable in the real world and works of imaginative fiction...

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

CitroJim wrote:
09 Apr 2018, 07:36
Strikes me that manufacturers stated EV range is about on a par with their mpg figures for ICE vehicles... Figures generally unattainable in the real world and works of imaginative fiction...

Not exactly, Jim. The manufacturers all have access to their own private infinite slopes that they use depending on circumstances. When they want to show good fuel economy they drive the test vehicle down the slope, and when they need to show good braking efficiency they drive them up it.

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
09 Apr 2018, 07:36
Strikes me that manufacturers stated EV range is about on a par with their mpg figures for ICE vehicles... Figures generally unattainable in the real world and works of imaginative fiction...

Manufacturers know what the realistic range is, but they're apparently legally required to use a standardised test cycle for marketing materials - until the end of last year it was NEDC, now it is WLTP.

However an ethical manufacturer of EV's would still give a lower "real world" figure in addition to the official WLTP rating. If you look at Tesla's sold in the EU/UK, they were quoting the ridiculous NEDC figure, (which can only be used for comparative purposes) but alongside that they were quoting a realistic figure as well based on the US EPA rating. So reading their marketing materials you would not be under any illusion that the NEDC figure was anything other than a comparative figure between cars, not an actual distance you could travel on a charge.

Some, like Nissan, notoriously, pretend that the NEDC and now WLTP figure is what the car will actually do, and frequently sell cars based on the claim that they will do the WLTP figure - there's a lot of people on SpeakEV grumbling about Nissan's practice of not informing potential customers of real world ranges when the majority of other EV manufacturers do in fact give both an "official" NEDC/WLTP figure and a lower more realistic "real world" figure.